[Request/Rant]How feasible is it to finally mod sound effects and to load pedestrian sprites or new models.

[MrDeviance]

I've been looking at the existing mods and all deal with cars, maps, visual effects or damage stats, however nothing seems to relate to new pedestrian models which I believe should have both much higher poly and higher texture models as well as better animations and better reactions when you're about to run them over.

As it stands right now, my personal opinion is that carmageddon max damage could be improved massively if the following things are fixed.

1.Improved pedestrian models and sounds because frankly, the peds are really really dragging down the game's overall aesthetics and ambient by a lot.

The way they move and run in slow motion like numb zombies is only made worse by their dumb screams and exclamation sounds.

In fact I would go on to say that if the ped sound effects were replaced with the old carmageddon 1 or 2 ones, the whole game ambient would jump up by a lot.

The pedestrians simply depress me and bore me to death with their current looks and sounds. It's as if they all have been gassed with sleeping gas before the race...

Not sure if anybody else feels this way but I really think that either carmageddon 1 sprites for peds should be added along with their old sounds (especially in conjunction with Trent's new carmageddon 1 cars and maps port) or just replace the sounds.

2.Removal of dizzy feature from the game! The way cars get stars and the sounds made upon impact is so obnoxious and it completely ruins the crashes for me. There's too much slap stick artificially injected into the crashes and it all feels like a joke that keeps on repeating itself until it becomes boring and annoying.

I just don't want dizzy sounds and visual effects in a game that is a sequel to a series that never needed that false gag stuff to be relevant.

3.Powerups need to stop having outlines around them because it makes them too arcadeish and feeds into the whole dizzy forced slapstick shit direction that needs to be removed so badly.

4.Car visual damage should be tweaked to match the prealpha level of damage that was superior in many ways to what we have now.

Crashing one car into the other actually felt rewarding and fun due to the damage itself back when I first tried the prealpha and then with each iteration it just got dumbed down until stuff started feeling like cars have scripted damage instead of real time damage.

If these 4 things get fixed by a series of mods, I think we could all enjoy carmageddon max damage much more than we do now.

I am willing to help fix as many of these issues as best as I can but I want to see somebody caring about this too.

My best bets here are Errol and Trent and maybe Toshiba too.

I'm not saying this should be done in a time frame but I think it should be a list of problems that we should all consider and ask ourselves if they bother us and what can we do about them to remove these annoyances.

Surely, I must not be the only one bothered by the fact that we don't have a straightforward way of modding the sound effects for cars or peds.

If you asked me, I think the 4 listed issues in my post represent the most obvious bad choices done with this game and if there still is any trace of this community still alive, we should all try and focus our talents and patch this game up.

I'm really trying to gather the whole community around these issues and try and fix them one way or the other, otherwise I don't see a reason to mod this game in any other way anymore.

[Errol]

Quick response...

1) New ped models are possible. Replacement ped sounds are easy. Neither can be done within the confines of CarMODgeddon though. 2D peds would look bloody awful.

2) I've not looked into this or how it is implemented. I doubt it would pose much of a problem though. Assuming you're fine with the opponents still being "dazed and confused" like in C2 and just want the audio-visual feedback removed.

3) AlexTSK did this a while ago. Again, not compatible with CarMODgeddon

4) No idea if this is achievable

[MrDeviance]

Quick response...

1) New ped models are possible. Replacement ped sounds are easy. Neither can be done within the confines of CarMODgeddon though. 2D peds would look bloody awful.

2) I've not looked into this or how it is implemented. I doubt it would pose much of a problem though. Assuming you're fine with the opponents still being "dazed and confused" like in C2

3) AlexTSK did this a while ago. Again, not compatible with CarMODgeddon

4) No idea if this is achievable

1. 2d peds would look just perfect coupled with trent's mod but in rest I agree they would not really fit, which Is why I would love to know where to start to replace the old the ped sounds with the old carma 1 or 2 ones.

Is there any tutorial or tip you can offer to narrow my search, or must I take the whole game apart piece by piece and experiment for hours on end just to find out which files does what?

2. I don't mind dazed and confused but I do mind dazed and confused sound effects and star effects.

3. Is it posted somewhere? Dowloadable or just WIP?

4.My first idea would be to find the files that deal with visual damage complexity and edit them to match the values found in the prealpha reincarnation files.

Surely, it's probably not as easy as I'm thinking it to be but that would be my first attempt

Lastly, I want to mention that frankly I'm really fed up with this carMODgeddon shit.

Do we really actually truly need two modes to launch this game in order to mod it?

Carmageddon 1 and 2 had no support for modding whatsoever and as we can all see, they are thriving on mods while this so called mod support in max damage is just a way to case more nagging problems.

Personally, I think we should all stop caring about carmodgeddon and try and mod the main game just like the old school ones.

Carmodgeddon should have been a game editor that was used to build the game with, not a mode that we launch the game with in order for mods to load...

Your Flummery is much more of a real carmodgeddon in my eyes and it should be the defacto tool to help us mod this thing.

I only just hope you get it released one day because it would really help fix this game.

In my heart I believe Carmageddon MadDamage is fixable if a number of edits and tweaks are done to it by the community but right now max damage just feels superficially moddable and not fully moddable.

I also wonder if Stainless are ever going to bother releasing anything to help us mod it and patch as much as we like.

[AlexTSK]

I would say there are more important matters to 'fix' before your suggestions can even be considered. The only thing I see mentioned that has any importance in terms of the playability of the game is the damage system. Everything else is pretty much visual and/or superfluous.

You should consider the bugs and systems that I think should be fixed first, if you're calling this a rant topic then lets rant. I'll take this as an opportunity to create a list in order of importance of fixes to consider before all the other unimportant stuff

DISCLAIMER : this is my own 2 cents and in no way am I saying the game will objectively be better for everyone if these things are ironed out, it will definitely be have more replay value for ME personally. I would also like to clarify that as person who doesn't much enjoy multiplayer games I can only speak for single player fixes here.

Gameplay

• Tougher vehicles overall, everything should be a bit harder to waste, wasting people with one PUP isn't fun nor is it fun to be instantly wasted by someone else without having a clue as to what hit you and how you can avoid it


• Less focus on powerup combat, no powerup gifts


• Repair delay, especially on wheels and tyres. Currently the stinger pup is worthless but it could be very useful if wheels weren't the first thing to be repaired


• Not being instantly wasted when someone hits you with a Repulficator (unless you car hits a corner and get split, even then you might still be able to repair)


• As well as causing heavy damage, make the new launcher pups (Anvil, Earthquake Bomb) disable your car for a few seconds instead of wasting you instantly


• Less damage from speed alone, vehicles seem to do way too much damage if they are fast, no matter if they are lightly armored or not.


• I miss being able to push opponents with torque heavy vehicles, doesn't happen much anymore


• Less damage from falling (Wasting the super suppressor off screen because it drove off the cliff, anyone?)
  

  I probably overlooked some things, but overall those are the most important characteristics of the gameplay that would IN MY opinion make the game more enjoyable and close to the C1/C2 feel where crashing cars was much more rewarding instead of driving around looking for pups to shoot at opponents. One thing I'd like to mention is that my first point about everything being a big tougher isn't really that clear cut. Sometimes cars take an absurd amount of punishment and sometimes get wasted in one hit, its all a bit too random at the moment.

Graphics

• Broken light shadows, especially evident on car headlights


• Broken animations where parts that are joined to each other don't rotate like they used to (check the driveshafts of all the vehicles that have them)


• Broken normal maps


• Blood colour (Already fixed in my own modded version, its just one line)

Probably some other graphics related things I forgot, but none of these are very important, not even the listed ones. Please take note how I'm not wanting 'new' graphics and assets, just a couple of fixes. I'm more than willing to create assets myself so there's no reason for me to bitch and moan about those.

Misc/Annoyances

• Vehicle wheels not being stored in one shared folder (inflating the size of mods that reuse wheels as well as vanilla cars that use the same wheel type)


• UV layouts are very confusing making skinning very difficult unless you know a 3D painting program


• No shared folder for car skins, although I do understand the decision partially.


• The pedestrians explode a bit too easily and don't have much weight to them, though I think if they were more weighty they could get annoying to plow through so yeah, swings and roundabouts.

I'm sure Trent can weigh in with more bugs that can be ironed out. Errol and Trent know the game far better than I do on a technical level.

EDIT: I made a WIP of my PUP mod but I have already started making new barrels that mimic the C1 barrels so I will go finish that instead.

As for carmodgeddon you don't have to use it, run Trent's Minge tool and Unzad all your game files, then mod to your hearts content, and you can play Career with mods, the only downside is the game still won't save.

[Errol]

1. 2d peds would look just perfect coupled with trent's mod but in rest I agree they would not really fit, which Is why I would love to know where to start to replace the old the ped sounds with the old carma 1 or 2 ones.

Is there any tutorial or tip you can offer to narrow my search, or must I take the whole game apart piece by piece and experiment for hours on end just to find out which files does what?

The lol files under \peds\voices\ are the various voice sets. They reference either wav or mp3 files under \audio\peds\voices

You can change which voice a ped uses in their \peds\types\ lol files.

Plus, that whole "take the whole game apart piece by piece and experiment for hours" is called modding. Kinda what we do.

2. I don't mind dazed and confused but I do mind dazed and confused sound effects and star effects.

Should be possible then. No idea where to start looking though.

3. Is it posted somewhere? Dowloadable or just WIP?

WIP. A screenshot of it is here:

4.My first idea would be to find the files that deal with visual damage complexity and edit them to match the values found in the prealpha reincarnation files.

Surely, it's probably not as easy as I'm thinking it to be but that would be my first attempt

I don't think this is a thing.

Lastly, I want to mention that frankly I'm really fed up with this carMODgeddon shit.

Do we really actually truly need two modes to launch this game in order to mod it?

Carmageddon 1 and 2 had no support for modding whatsoever and as we can all see, they are thriving on mods while this so called mod support in max damage is just a way to case more nagging problems.

Personally, I think we should all stop caring about carmodgeddon and try and mod the main game just like the old school ones.

Carmodgeddon should have been a game editor that was used to build the game with, not a mode that we launch the game with in order for mods to load...

Your Flummery is much more of a real carmodgeddon in my eyes and it should be the defacto tool to help us mod this thing.

I only just hope you get it released one day because it would really help fix this game.

In my heart I believe Carmageddon MadDamage is fixable if a number of edits and tweaks are done to it by the community but right now max damage just feels superficially moddable and not fully moddable.

I also wonder if Stainless are ever going to bother releasing anything to help us mod it and patch as much as we like.

We've been hacking around with some concepts to skirt around the CarMODgeddon limitations. Nothing solid yet but things are afoot.

[MrDeviance]

As for carmodgeddon you don't have to use it, run Trent's Minge tool and Unzad all your game files, then mod to your hearts content, and you can play Career with mods, the only downside is the game still won't save.

That saving protection is driving me insane and it's so anti fun and pointless and it's probably done just because the game is on steam and saves get stored in the steam cloud.

If saving would still be possible even after heavy modding of the game, I would totally go that route but I guess for pure fun, we could mod it and just play it in free ride instead of doing missions.

[MrDeviance]

1. 2d peds would look just perfect coupled with trent's mod but in rest I agree they would not really fit, which Is why I would love to know where to start to replace the old the ped sounds with the old carma 1 or 2 ones.

Is there any tutorial or tip you can offer to narrow my search, or must I take the whole game apart piece by piece and experiment for hours on end just to find out which files does what?

The lol files under \peds\voices\ are the various voice sets. They reference either wav or mp3 files under \audio\peds\voices

You can change which voice a ped uses in their \peds\types\ lol files.

Plus, that whole "take the whole game apart piece by piece and experiment for hours" is called modding. Kinda what we do.

2. I don't mind dazed and confused but I do mind dazed and confused sound effects and star effects.

Should be possible then. No idea where to start looking though.

3. Is it posted somewhere? Dowloadable or just WIP?

WIP. A screenshot of it is here:

4.My first idea would be to find the files that deal with visual damage complexity and edit them to match the values found in the prealpha reincarnation files.

Surely, it's probably not as easy as I'm thinking it to be but that would be my first attempt

I don't think this is a thing.

Lastly, I want to mention that frankly I'm really fed up with this carMODgeddon shit.

Do we really actually truly need two modes to launch this game in order to mod it?

Carmageddon 1 and 2 had no support for modding whatsoever and as we can all see, they are thriving on mods while this so called mod support in max damage is just a way to case more nagging problems.

Personally, I think we should all stop caring about carmodgeddon and try and mod the main game just like the old school ones.

Carmodgeddon should have been a game editor that was used to build the game with, not a mode that we launch the game with in order for mods to load...

Your Flummery is much more of a real carmodgeddon in my eyes and it should be the defacto tool to help us mod this thing.

I only just hope you get it released one day because it would really help fix this game.

In my heart I believe Carmageddon MadDamage is fixable if a number of edits and tweaks are done to it by the community but right now max damage just feels superficially moddable and not fully moddable.

I also wonder if Stainless are ever going to bother releasing anything to help us mod it and patch as much as we like.

We've been hacking around with some concepts to skirt around the CarMODgeddon limitations. Nothing solid yet but things are afoot.

Ok. I will start looking into the ped sounds and see what can be done, also thanks for clearing things a bit more.

One question though. Is the Gog version any good to try and mod or should I stick with the steam version?

[Trent]

The audio files are in their own separate ZAD files which aren't protected, so replacing sounds won't even lock saving or multiplayer. They're in ZAD_AUDIO.

[MrDeviance]

The audio files are in their own separate ZAD files which aren't protected, so replacing sounds won't even lock saving or multiplayer. They're in ZAD_AUDIO.

Yeah but if I recall correctly, engine sounds were not at all easy to replace.

[Errol]

The audio files are in their own separate ZAD files which aren't protected, so replacing sounds won't even lock saving or multiplayer. They're in ZAD_AUDIO.

Yeah but if I recall correctly, engine sounds were not at all easy to replace.

Engine sounds are a completely different kettle of fish.

Is the Gog version any good to try and mod or should I stick with the steam version?

Much of a muchness as they're functionally identical.

[CzechDeath]

Yep

the vissuals that I am also pretty keen on, for obvious reasons, asside. Most troublesome for me are also the previously mentioned by Alex, properties of current damage and lack of kinetic energy being properly transfered, compared to c1 and c2 and the lack of torque. Having a big ass truck helplessly pusing against wolkswerker cause Stig stepped on the brakes, is ridiculous and deeply sadning (again) becuase such things were spot in in c1 and c2, which to me means that they know how it should be so it is not lack of knowledge or understanding, but probably lack of resources to polish and tune it or whatever.

Peds being more often ragdoll than minced meat would also be amazing, but Im starting to get in to the vissuals again =D.

As for the audio, I have been thinking all the way back when pre-alpha, that cars kinda lack creeking and other mechanical sounds, such as turbos and various hisses. which would emencly improve overall enjoyment aswell imo. Especially then big vehicles like trucks and plow, where the pneumatic brake should nicely let out his after we let go of the brakes... but well this is entirely removed from modding with purpose to fix things, this is me dreaming again %D

[MrDeviance]

Right now, I've gotten down and dirty with the ped lol files and their respective audio files and oh man...

This is shocking to find sooo much sound variety for each one of the peds compared to carmageddon 1!

Each of the peds has their own set of sounds for everything they do.

For example the cop peds have 50 fucking voice mp3 50!!!

This is crazy! How is it possible that peds have so many sound variations and yet they sound duller and less varied than in carmageddon 1 that only has a few sounds for all peds combined...

In order for me to bring back the carmageddon 1 ped sounds into max damage, I basically have to create a new audio zad and delete almost everything in it and just leave male and female voice folders and place carmageddon 1 voice wav files in there and then go to the lol file for peds inside the scripts zad and point about 50 different sound files to play only 3 or 4 different sounds from carma 1 after I carefully decide and select which ped sounds from carma 1 should go best for each instance of those 50 variations...

To cut it short, there is just not enough sound variation for peds in carmageddon 1 to actually have a 1:1 ratio of sounds replaced, however I will try my best and see what happens but I don't see this going too well...

The mod as I see it right now, should only be 2 zad files a zscripts.zad and a zaudio.zad but it's going to be tedious to write all those paths for the old sounds.

There's also a matter of ped impact sounds that need changing for a more authentic carmageddon 1 sound.

I will come back with updates as I figure out more about this ped sound layout.

[Errol]

I like how you've just realised how large a task you've proposed in your first post whilst doing probably the second easiest part of it.

Just wait until you come to replace all the ped models, animations and textures.

edit:

Just realised how dismissive the original post is. It is nice to see people getting stuck into the modding and congrats for doing what you've done so far.

It might be worth having a look at \peds\includes\sounds.lol

You might be able to use that to simply remap all sounds to a single source and set up a single ped with that voice and source. Theoretically that should auto-override every other ped. Worth a poke.

[MrDeviance]

I like how you've just realised how large a task you've proposed in your first post whilst doing probably the second easiest part of it.

Just wait until you come to replace all the ped models, animations and textures.

edit:

Just realised how dismissive the original post is. It is nice to see people getting stuck into the modding and congrats for doing what you've done so far.

It might be worth having a look at \peds\includes\sounds.lol

You might be able to use that to simply remap all sounds to a single source and set up a single ped with that voice and source. Theoretically that should auto-override every other ped. Worth a poke.

Will get back to it hopefully this week. This mod requires a day with multiple free hours in order to focus on replacing the sounds and constantly testing gameplay to see how good peds sound in game.

I would not want to have male peds scream like female peds by mistake because that would just feel shitty and cheap.

Also, there is more ped variety of in max damage and some of the peds will just have to share the same scream sounds due to not enough variation of screams in carma 1. I am also asking myself how it might sounds if I also get carma 2 ped scream sounds mixed in with the carma 1 scream peds souds. Will it sounds more complex and feel like both carma 1 an 2 or sound disjointed and out of place.

All are examples that need to be tried through lots of trial and error and through lots of line rewrites. Until I get some hours free, I can't afford to start this mod.