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OK I made a map (sort of) imported easily from C2 (for a start)

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starbuck
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OK I made a map (sort of) imported easily from C2 (for a start)

Post by starbuck »

Hello anybody out there I mean there are 4500 views and yet no help.

I followed Trents advice on page 1, everything is named properly and its pretty easy to add something to the map by making models and doing some editing in word but still nothing.

Now I tried something to test. I imported Trents &01WREK file. Worked perfectly.

So I imported into MAX. I REexported it out with Trents tools. Both checkboxes marked. First I did just the MDL export and the CNT export. It didnt show up in the map.

So I exported it fully using the MDL and CNT hierarchy button. It showed up that time in the game but I was able to drive thru it.

When I imported it the model did not keep the same name. This time it was called "Object001" which wasnt the original name.

So I used CUNT and renamed it. Then all of a sudden it worked and I was able to crash into it.

But again no matter what I do the objects I make from scratch are visible but I still can drive thru it.

PLEASE somebody help me figure this out.
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OK I made a map (sort of) imported easily from C2 (for a start)

Post by Trent »

The accessories in my old C1 ports were never set up correctly, so most of them do not have the proper collisions set up for them and generally have naff accessory.txt files. The C1_CON_BAR accessory, for example, doesn't have the correct set so it wasn't applying any of the dynamics settings to the mesh. The has to match the relevant name in the CNT. You can have multiple [DYNAMICS] sections for multiple mesh parts of an accessory.

The reason it's not colliding with anything is because the accessory.txt is malformed. You need to make sure you have the section headers (such as and their settings on separate lines. For example your boulder accessory has the following accessory.txt:


[DYNAMICS]

boulder






100.000000

0.5,0.5,0.5

0.000000,0.000000,-0.000000


(no_shape)
The game doesn't see a section called , it sees a section calls boulder. Similarly it can't find a section called . When you correctly put the new lines in the correct place you will collide with the accessory, but it won't move. That is because you have set , which makes the accessory completely solid and unmoving, which is useful for things like the race barriers which shouldn't move when hit.

If you take off then it will act like a physics object but it won't roll around properly (also <=== how heavy the accessory is

<=== where the centre of the mass is located

<=== the moments of inertia/angular mass/rotational intertia.

Determines how an object rotates around each axis.

No idea how to calculate them, errol has info about this

<=== The collision shape of the object

[/code]

The section follows the following format:



Dyn_shape <=== either Dyn_shape or (no_shape), depending if it has a shape or not
2 <=== how many collision shapes it uses
Sphere <=== the type of the collision shape
0.017639,0.816099,-0.004795 /__________ The values for the collision shape
0.142742 \

form_collision_groups <=== Tells the game it forms a collision group
1 <=== which collision group it's part of

*********MORE SHAPES GO HERE********
The shape type can be AlignedCuboid, Sphere, Polyhedron, RoundedPolyhedron or TicTac and the values which follow it are different for each collision shape. Spheres, for example, have a position vector on the first line and a radius on the second. AlignedCuboids have a min position and a max position. TicTac have start position, an end position and a radius. Polyhedron and RoundedPolyhedren are a lot more complicated and are basically defining points of a convex hull.

Here is a working accessory.txt for your boulder:


[DYNAMICS]


boulder




100.000000


21.127220,15.985147,21.429117


0.000000,0.000000,-0.000000


Dyn_shape
1
Sphere
0.0,0.0,0.0
2

form_collision_groups
1
I also made the boulder model bigger so it's easier to see and centred it around the origin so it rolls correctly, here is the fixed accessory: http://carmatools.com/downloads/boulder.zip

Collision shapes really are needed for actual physics objects but not for static objects, unless they're really complex and you want to simplify them, which improves performance. There's a lot of other things which can be done with accessories, such as defining joints, setting rigid body animations (we haven't reverse engineered the RBA file format yet), have them breakable and swap to a different accessory when hit, have them explode, give you a powerup, be a conveyor belt, set them to ignore world collisions (useful if you have a door with a hinge which penetrates the wall, for example), set collision groups it belongs to and ignores and much more. The only thing you can do is look at the existing official accessories and see how they do things.

In regards to your other question about the level.lol script, here's a break down of the entries:


C1IndustB_1_accesory_7 = { <=== Unique identifier, doesn't matter what it's called just should be unique and relevant to your level
type = "c1_con_barrier", <=== The type of accessory which is being placed
name = "con_barrier", <=== The name which the game references, it is also used to determine checkpoint order and the type of cops
layer = "race01", <=== Which layer the accessory belongs to, used to determine which race it shows on among some other things
transform = { <=== The transform matrix
{ <=== X-axis
1,
0,
0
},
{ <=== Y-axis
0,
1,
0
},
{ <=== Z-axis
0,
0,
1
},
{ <== Position
0.5,
1,
10
}
},
colour = { <=== Colour
255,
255,
255
}
}
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OK I made a map (sort of) imported easily from C2 (for a start)

Post by starbuck »

Thanks its a lot to take in. But nicely detailed like I was hoping.

Thanks for making a working boulder text file.

As for the other parts of an accessory file now I have a working on I can probably just play around with them and see what happens.

Thanks, Of Course it works.

Whats weird is that the accessories like rocks in CR say (no_shape) and probably was mixing me up.

Now I have to get over a relapse of the flu. :)
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OK I made a map (sort of) imported easily from C2 (for a start)

Post by FatCat »

Say, what if Flummery had a special mode: Map mode

~ It would allow you to move objects around in a scene

~ And it would allow you to import multiple FBX objects into the scene all willy nilly.

~ And it would allow you to delete objects that are existing in the scene.

~ Then it would let you save as a C:R map which would give it a generic set of decent-looking lighting values (if they dont exist already) for first-build testing.

That's would be it, really!

It wouldnt be much more options than what already exists, the bulk of the framework is already built, all Flummery would need is a couple of tweaks to allow those few little extra features.
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Post by starbuck »

FatCat wrote:Say, what if Flummery had a special mode: Map mode

~ It would allow you to move objects around in a scene

.

I remember reading that Errol wanted a special walk around mode to place objects in a map, somewhere. But I heard he is really freaking busy. Something about him doing other than Carmageddon stuff in life. :)

FYI Trent . I just made a new ball about the same size using your text file and it worked just as well.

I also for example did (No_shape) and that still worked. Assuming I didnt space out :)
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OK I made a map (sort of) imported easily from C2 (for a start)

Post by starbuck »

OK Trent I am bored and trying my hand at home made maps. PS anybody wanting to try this map so far it really has nothing much in it, its just a starter map. VERY boring.

If I asked this question before I am so sorry.

CR map

USE dropbox links posted below

Max 15 file and image map and max 2014 file . The texture map was in a different directory but showed up in MAX.

USE dropbox links posted below

Why does all the cars fall thru the map floor ? I am just going thru "Export Full CNT & MDL Heirarchy" after "Setup Heirarchy" And forget using Flummery, same thing happens when I export it thru FBX and compile it there.

Forgive typos, can barely type nowadays. Thanks for looking.. Thanks for trying Alex.
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OK I made a map (sort of) imported easily from C2 (for a start)

Post by Trent »

Can you upload it somewhere else like dropbox? Chrome keeps detecting that site as attempting to install malware.

Regarding falling through the floor: When the game generates collision meshes from the main models it does not always follow the transforms defined in the CNT file. I think these are the requirements:

The root node of the hierarchy needs to be positioned at 0, 0 ,0 and within the bounds of the overall level

The origin of each sub-object needs to be within the bounds of the mesh.

That's what I remember off hand from experiencing the issue myself, hopefully I'm not forgetting anything.
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Post by starbuck »

It happens when it is at 0,0,0.I "dropped it" in Max hoping to catch it.

And for some reason I forgot how to store files in dropbox for you to download.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w8tkazlagv7ycqe/dukes.zip?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6rtswu4u3viiue/scenes.zip?dl=0

Try those or PM me your email since I forgot how to use dropbox, my mind is so screwy since my medical conditions.

let me know if you need another way. PS my PC block the mailware from that site. Thank God.

This issue never happened when doing my test maps.
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Post by Trent »

You haven't defined a grid accessory in the level.lol so it's just spawning the grid at 0,0,0. The ground place, when the root box is positioned at 0,0,0, is above 0,0,0 so the cars spawn below the ground to start with. You need to define a grid accessory for the race in the level.lol so you can set where it spawns.

You also NEED to make sure the root object's origin is at 0,0,0 because, like I said, the collision mesh does not move with it, which is why the cars fell through the geometry when you moved it down. The mesh being rendered was below but the collision mesh was still above where the cars spawned.

I would also highly recommend you set the units in 3dsmax to use Generic Units so you can be certain 1 unit in 3dsmax = 1 unit in Carma = 1 meter. You might be more comfortable thinking in feet & inches but this makes everything so much simpler when making sure positions and scales are correct. Another thing I would highly recommend is making sure the CNT modifiers are set to bake the scale into the mesh so you don't have to worry about non-uniform scaling weirdness.
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Post by starbuck »

I am sorry for asking but "grid accessory" ?

Can you edit it toward a working model in MAX 2015 ? So I can visualize what you mean ?

I would really appreciate it.

I did it in Feet / Inches to attempt to get the scaling better since I have the overhead view. I was testing the scaling based on a car model size but got it close..

I just copied the LOL and TXT files from another map, cant even find where the start points are.

Thanks for stepping in.
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Post by starbuck »

Yup Its not working. Got the center of the map at the ground level set at 0,0,0 (not the center of the cube) and the cars still all fall thru , except for the one car on the very edge of the cube where the front end just falls about 1 foot into the cube and it seems to just sit there.
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Post by Trent »

Did you move the actual object or just the polygons? I'll reiterate: The collision mesh's root is ALWAYS positioned at 0,0,0 regardless of where the visual mesh's root is positioned. If you want to move the box down you need to go into Editable Poly/Mesh, enable a sub-object mode like triangle, vertex, element amd move them down. Either that or after you've moved the box normally, go into the Hierarchy panel, turn on Affect Pivot Only and move the pivot back to 0,0,0.

Grid accessory, as in the accessory object which defines the starting grid. Accessories are defined in the level.lol script. There is a special accessory called _grid which defines where the starting grid is positioned. All I did* to get it working was move the root object to 0,0,0 in 3dsmax, export the CNT and add the grid accessory to be positioned at 0, 10, 0. Some cars were stuck in a building but they all landed on the ground. I would suggest you take a look at all the various scripts used in the levels and try to understand what is in them. This is the contents of the level.lol I used: You might also need to delete NAVMAP.BZN to make sure that gets generated off the correct mesh data too, though that shouldn't effect the collisions, just the ped navigation.

module((...), level_accessory_setup)
accessories = {

dukes_accesory_01 = {
type = "_grid",
name = "SPAWN",
layer = "race01",
transform = {
{
-4.37114E-08,
0,
1
},
{
0,
1,
0
},
{
-1,
0,
-4.37114E-08
},
{
0,
10,
0
}
},
colour = {
255,
255,
255
}
},
}
*I also needed to add a few other scripts to the level to make it work in C:MD, particularly the script which controls the intro camera, but that's neither here nor there.
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Post by starbuck »

Thanks. Give me a few days to assimilate what you said after I hopefully get over this damn flu.

EDIT The problem was my Pivot was set too low I assumed it was at 0,0,0. But it was at the center of the model.
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Post by Trent »

Yup, I'm glad you managed to figure out what I was saying. Another recommendation of mine would be to make a null node as the root node and position it at 0,0,0 and then parent everything to that instead of using a model node as the root. That way you can be certain the root's origin (or pivot, whatever you want to call it) is always at 0,0,0.
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Post by starbuck »

OK Trent I just started up trying to do my map again.

At the present I cant recall the best way to upload my file so I hope you can guess the answer.

I had another stroke so I may be a little weird right now so here goes...

My model is at 0,0,0 and the "affect Pivot" is also at 0,0,0 so why am I and the opponents 30 feet in the air above the map driving on a glass ceiling ? The TOP of the glass ceiling. Right side up not upside down..

Thanks again.

I parented the file and the same thing happened. Here is the MAX file and the unMinged map. https://www.dropbox.com/s/2nq5qieyi8wirel/dukes.rar?dl=0

PS as of my second stroke in life now, this may be the last and only project I am working on
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Post by Trent »

I'm not sure what you're doing but level.cnt has the root dukes object positioned at [-8.155338, -25.6116, -23.60992], not [0,0,0] as it should be. Dukes.cnt however looks correct. Are you remembering to export the cnt to level.cnt and not dukes.cnt?
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Post by starbuck »

I may have sent you an older file. I remember "zeroing" it before zipping it up.

Didnt think about the level.CNT.Copied I think from an old map ?

Damn glad I am not a rocket scientist. Get back to you in a few days.

EDIT Saved as a level.CNT now I am back on the ground, Thanks. I will clean it up later. Christ I am getting old. :P
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Post by starbuck »

OK I am getting pissed off. NONE of my models are showing up on the map in game. Even though my car is bouncing and exploding on "invisible curbs". Its been a freaking month and I am really getting pissed off, probably because of my stroke and forgetting the SIMPLEST thing !!

The only portion of the map showing up is the "main square" which is the map name. (dukes)

I dont get it. I make car models and all the parts show up in the game.

I WANT to try making a map but dammit !!!!!!

Trent I need a really big favor. Can you post a sample map in Max 15 format ? Even one of the map sets you already made ? I would really appreciate it. I will look at it and try to work it out. If you cant I understand. I know how busy you are.

Now I DID import the Cindustrial_b level.cnt and i opened up as one object . Is that your secret ? Cause I am trying to make each building separate. Tried merging the meshes but I must be doing something wrong.
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Post by Trent »

Have you set the materials correctly? Incorrect materials can result in objects not being rendered. Also have you made sure to tick the "bake scale" option in the CNT modifier?
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Post by starbuck »

Give me time to check the materials, and yes I always tick "bake scale" I am going to wipe most of the files out and try again with one object again later.

When I merge objects that "materials ID" box that shows up confuses me.

I exported an object to 3ds with anther object attached already so I am going to wipe it clean and try with just that object.

It may take a while, got a head cold :P

Just realized it I think its because I didnt UVW map !
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Post by starbuck »

Thanks again for trying Trent. Your suggestion helped lead me to the problem that it might be the UVW mapping parameter.

I loaded an obsolete model and UVW mapped one object and they all sort of showed up.

EDIT It was your suggestion about the material IDs officially, cause sometimes the object showed up.

Now I gotta try to rebuild my map from all the 3DS files I exported them to. Its like a junkyard out there but I will also look toward your solution as well.

Again Thanks for all your help. People like you keep this "dead" forum going.
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Post by starbuck »

OK so I dont bring other topics off topic here is a map related question.

Why with the custom made maps do the textures flash purple ?
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Post by AlexTSK »

Check the diagnostics log, typically flashing purple means the game cannot find the texture attached to the material in question.
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Post by starbuck »

In MAX when render there are no textures missing.

But when I run the game with this map 90 percent of textures are missing ? and all purple colored and flashing.

The missing textures showed up in a list. Did not even know they existed and I have about 1600 TIF files in my old Carma library.
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Post by starbuck »

OK Trent NOW I am confused. I am in the midst of "repairing the broken maps I listed and now I am really stuck

I havent moved the models I only imported them with Harms Tools, Exported them and imported them as OBJ files (so not only can I easily change the TIF into PNG files as well as importing the models only as one mesh) Then selected the Edit poly as Vertexes (to try and turn it into an Editable poly. Than I turned them into CNT Heiarchy,as a Baked Scale Into Mesh (MODL) . THEN I enlarged the original model by 690 percent. I also added a start point within the model. I also set the PIVOT ONLY at 0,0,0.

So why the heck NOW am I falling thru the map ?

This file has all the original files like the MAX files etc.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d1eshgakdpdal78/AvenueOfAtrocities%20max2015%20and%20files.rar?dl=0

And this is the file to put into CR. I havent tried it in MD yet. (baby steps.)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/unu5bw6eynpkyny/AvenueOfAtrocities.zip?dl=0

Plus a sample of my purple textures (why are there MAT files in the mix ?

And in the log "Data_Core\Content\Vehicles\eagle_r Car lumberer couldn't find ground at 2.000,100.000,201.000" For this and other vehicles.

Anybody ? Thanks
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Post by Trent »

From what i remember you need to create a null node at 0,0,0 and make it the parent of all the actual meshes, while the meshes need to have their pivots at their center, which can be done by pressing the Center To Object button on the hierarchy panel. Though I think the collision issue is related to the bug i found in my bounding box generating code so the latest unreleased version of my maxscript probably avoids the issue completely

Why are you still doing that nonsense with exporting to obj and importing it back again? 3DSMax supports TIF, so does GibbedTools and so does Flummery. There is an issue that Harm's tools do not set the absolute path of textures, instead it sets sessions paths in 3dsmax so it only has to set the filenames in the material. My tools expect an absolute path to be used though so GibbedTools ends up not being able to find the texture. Just take the tif textures and run them through gibbedtools manually.

MAT files are how C1 and C2 define materials. C:R/MD use MT2 files for the same job.

Also have you defined the grid in the level.lol correctly?
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Post by starbuck »

I could have swore that I read somewhere Flummery does not support TIF or something like that. I remember reading that Flummery creates MT2 files FROM TIFs. I am going the route of making an OBJ file to make it one mesh without having MAX deform the textures. Doing for example using ATTACH deforms the models and creates weird polygons in places where they shouldnt be , like creating polygon "ramps" in places. thus when driving you slam under a strange polygon that shows up out of nowhere..

And YES I read the webpage where you talked about the grid. And about the 4th section in the level.lol file.

Will try the root node later.

Why are the pivots at the center of the object when you told me the pivots need to be at 0,0,0 ?
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Post by Trent »

Attach doesnt deform models at all, it literally just attaches one mesh to another. When you do it it does offer options regarding materials and material IDs, you just need to make sure "Match Material IDs to Material" is selected and it will make sure it keeps the correct materials assigned to each triangle.

Edit: the root object needs to be at the world origin, sub objects should be able to be in any position. The sub objects need to have pivots in their center because the bounding box calculation is only correct for objects which have their pivots at the center in the version of my tools which you're using.
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Post by starbuck »

So then why did my maps have these odd textures stretched out everywhere onto walls that were never there (long polygons that stretched forever) ?

I did Attach before with "Match Material IDs to Material" and no OBJ "importing stuff" and my cars were trapped under the ground with polygons going everywhere and THEY had hit detection.

Did the parent Root Node and the game crashed upon loading the map. Just exporting the level.cnt to the proper directory.

And Flummery crashed when loading the LEVEL.CNT.

Do you have MAX so I can see what you are talking about. Hopefully you can make the model edits you are talking about ? What if there is only 1 model ?

EDIT OK this time I made the map with the NULL parent Node (no flummery) and the game didnt crash. I did drop onto an untextured floor withe no noticeable city around me., just a white clear city with no models. I selected the NULL Node from your tools as the main object when I exported

EDIT Over the next few days I will look over your Industrial test map and try to break it with the setting I use and repair it again.

EDIT Now since I am more awake after having some rest The Center To Object button is greyed out. Do I click Affect Pivot only because it then turns white .
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Post by starbuck »

OK I am making progress (if you want to consider failure progress).

I imported C1Indutrail_Bs level.CNT into MAX and used your tools to export Full CNT and MDL Heiarchy back over the same level.CNT and I popped up about 20 feet BELOW the map in game and fell into space.

So now I know nothing is wrong with your map, so what am I doing wrong ? I exported with the Root selected when I exported it so what am I doing wrong ? Even YOUR map is causing the same problems, or is it me ?

Same with the MAX file you sent me as well of Industrial.
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Post by starbuck »

Errol wrote:v0.3.7.2 is out now.

The process for going from C2 to C:R is now:


File > Open > Carmageddon 2 > Actor

Select your map .act file

Tools > Carmageddon 2 > Process for Carmageddon Reincarnation

File > Save As > Carmageddon Reincarnation > Level


Drop the generated zad onto minge to install it.


Test in game.

Odd I MUST be having a bad day cause THIS way drops me into space too .

Errol the DAT files etc are in that file I posted . Some input would be helpful please.

EDIT Weird Just did the same to Beaches of Blood yet it works. Must be a haunted map :P

EDIT Also cant make a !\75Water material (maybe because windows wont allow it ) Solved that one by removing the "offensive letters" in Plaything2

EDIT Another oddity I did the same above and loaded the Desert 1 map I forgot to process it like above (Thru the Carma2 settings ) and compiled it . Of course when I ran it the map was about 1/6th its size and I was able to drive everywhere, but when I went back and reloaded it in Flummery and Carma2 batch processed it , I also then fell thru the map and thru space.

Can ANY Sherlock Holmes figure what the issue is ? Are there bugs in about 30 of the maps here ?
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starbuck
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OK I made a map (sort of) imported easily from C2 (for a start)

Post by starbuck »

OK Its me again. Making a mew post asking for help.

I admit I was messing up on my own without help from Trent and Errol :P So far I noticed when joining the map parts together I didnt know that I had to re-center the map again using "Center to Object" Now I dont fall thru space but I do land on some polygons and am able to drive 50 feet below the visual map bouncing around on some invisible "land".

So please what am i missing ? here is the drivable map (so far) and the 3ds max 2015 file.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4q2iopzm4pfov8e/partially%20working%20desert1.rar?dl=0
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Errol
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OK I made a map (sort of) imported easily from C2 (for a start)

Post by Errol »

Honestly? I have no idea.

I wouldn't bother doing anything with Flummery though. v0.3.7.5 is ages old and the beta version has so many caveats and loose ends I think it would cause you more grief than help. I can't help or offer advice with the 3ds max scripts as I don't have max and have never used the scripts.
:: You wanna build a snowman mod C:R? Get Flummery, the Carmageddon modders tool. ::
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starbuck
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OK I made a map (sort of) imported easily from C2 (for a start)

Post by starbuck »

Errol wrote:Honestly? I have no idea.

I wouldn't bother doing anything with Flummery though. v0.3.7.5 is ages old and the beta version has so many caveats and loose ends I think it would cause you more grief than help. I can't help or offer advice with the 3ds max scripts as I don't have max and have never used the scripts.

Thanks for trying Errol. If its a beta version you did pretty good for a beta version. I was hoping Trent could give an answer off the top of his head, I am assuming he has come across this before.I have tried importing the original files (into flummery as well ) but no dice, I cant even remember what wrong things I did

Everything looks perfect except I cant do the "Root" thing like his test map because it processes nothing (apparently) . Which his test map actually works fine. It seems I have everything exactly like his test map.

Here is hoping for Trent to acknowledge this post(like FOR EVA !!! :P). For the past week I have tried everything I can think of but no dice. I KNOW its something very simple I am just overlooking it.

Bugs the hell out of me. Stepping away , going back with a fresh mind, nothing. Once I solve this hurdle its onto the (hopefully easy) text editing.
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OK I made a map (sort of) imported easily from C2 (for a start)

Post by Trent »

The very simple things you are overlooking are what I have already suggested you to you. Here are some simple instructions for you to follow:

  1. Make sure nothing is selected

  2. Go to the Tools tab of my MaxScript.

  3. Click Create Null Node

  4. Rename the newly created null node to Root

  5. In the scene explorer, drag Deaert1 on to Root to parent the mesh to the null node.

  6. Select Root

  7. Go to the Export tab of the MaxScript

  8. Click Export CNT and overwrite your expisting Level.cnt, no need to export the MDL

That will solve your collision issues. It won't solve the fact you spawn beneath the ground, however, as that issue is related to the default grid spawning at 0,0,0 and the nearest ground is 100 meters above that point. There are two options to solve this:

  • Either create an entry in the level.lol script for the grid and define where it is meant to spawn.

  • Or select the Deaert1 object in 3DSMax and move it down by a hundred units or so then export the CNT again. No need to export the MDL.

To help you out here is a quick GIF of the process, click it to enlarge:


Once you do those then you will have the simplest part of level creation sorted :)
a.k.a. Brent
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