Carma for android?

dannim · Post by **dannim** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:18 pm

Hey

will the android version be releasing same time as Ios version?

Because the mail i got doesnt really tell anything other then this:

It’s currently in submission with Apple, and as soon as we get the thumbs up from them, I’ll be able to tell you the exact release date – so no-one will miss the “first day free!” that we offered you all as thanks during our Kickstarter campaign.

Best regards

HansSchmucker · Post by **HansSchmucker** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:28 pm

According to other posts in this forum, the Android version has been delayed to December/January since they're a) pretty busy working on Reincarnation, leaving one lonely Android guy to do the port and b) need to do a LOT of testing... imagine if it came out and wouldn't be compatible with your device on the first (free) day...

Warning · Post by **Warning** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:30 pm

The Android version has been delayed slightly due to having to get the game's engine to work properly in the Android operating system. This interview with Nobby and Sim answers why in good detail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELdANnzWUZc

Skip to about the 4:30 mark to hear Nobby talking about why the Android version is running a bit behind in comparison to the iOS version.

RageRiot · Post by **RageRiot** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:58 pm

I've got a Samsung phone, release it for the models that work :P

Thanks for posting the video. I guess I'll just have to wait patiently for the android version. meh ios.

greenzeta · Post by **greenzeta** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:18 pm

Any chance of posting an early apk so we can play around with it, even semi-working?

scorpeeon · Post by **scorpeeon** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:21 pm

Yeah, it sure takes much more effort to test it on all the various Android devices out there.

But it's good to know that there are like 3 times more Android devices out there than iOS devices, so i'm sure many people with Android devices are looking forward to play with it. I think if it runs good on few of the most popular you can even release it and as you test it on more phones, you can update the game and make it compatible with these phones, doing this on Google Play Store is really easy to do and doesn't require all the 1 week approval process Apple's store does.

And I also agree that if the game runs good enough on certain devices, you can release a test version so that hardcore fans could get a taste of it and maybe even provide some feedback which could speed up all the testing process it takes. I have access to 4 different Android devices, so I'm up for testing if you need me :)

Scorg · Post by **Scorg** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:40 pm

Now which Samsungs Have they had this running on so far?

I've got the Samsung Nexus S and Galaxy Tab (both related to the Galaxy S1) and would be rather happy to have it running on these devices.

Trent · Post by **Trent** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:39 am

How it runs on one android device bears little to no relevance to how it runs on another, no matter how similar the specifications. There's over a thousands times more types of Android device on the market than iOS devices at the least, all ranging from low internal spec to high spec, from tiny Postage-Stamp sized screens to Holy-Fucking-Shit-Look-At-How-Bloody-Huge-It-Is sized screens with resolutions running from a few hundred pixels each way up to resolutions which would make your state of the art HDTV weep with jealousy.

It's not just the performance of the game they have to check. They have to test the user interface to make sure it's readable and usable on all the different combinations of screen size and resolution, they have to check the game is rendering at all resolutions correctly without distortion along with checking there's no graphical bugs specific to a type (or combination) of hardware and they have to make sure there's no Crash-To-Desktop or Force-Close bugs which may only occur on specific hardware. Even two phones with identical hardware made by different manufacturers running their own drivers, etc. could potentially each have unique issues and bugs which no other phone gets. There is so much you need to check for compatibility when developing an Android game that it makes developing for the PC a positive godsend with it's standardised hardware structure and only two brands of processor and 3 brands of GPU.

This also has a knock on effect on the Google Marketplace/Playstore. It's basically unmoderated and allows apps to go up without any form of proper certification to give the user a reasonable guarantee that it will actually work on any device, let alone their's. If a developer doesn't have the resources or knowledge to check all the necessary parts on all the necessary types of devices, they won't know it doesn't work until an angry fan is yelling at them and spreading bad opinions about the app. Marketplaces like Apple's or MS's may take time to get through but at least when it does you know it's like 90% certain to work on all of their respective devices which you want it to.

EDIT: An image says a thousand words, so here's photo of a selection of the devices which Animoca use to test their Android games: http://phandroid.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/animoca-android.jpg

scorpeeon · Post by **scorpeeon** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:13 pm

That's mostly true but the case is not nearly as tragic as you painted it. These unique errors are fairly rare meaning that any well written app runs pretty nicely on more than 95% of the popular devices. There's absolutely no need to test it on thousands of devices. If it runs nice on few of the popular devices, it probably will on most of the other devices out there too, and if it's not, it's probably those devices' fault, which's manufacturers are to blame.

And by the way there's 15 minutes of time after every purchase on Play Store in which you can refund any app you purchased, so if it doesn't work well, well, then people can just refund the purchase easily.

spudthedestroyer · Post by **spudthedestroyer** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:02 am

Asus Transformer Prime TF201 here if you need any help testing :)

Pallokala · Post by **Pallokala** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:20 pm

And I've got Asus Transformer Infinity (TF701T oslt.). I really wish that it will run well on these tables.

ChaosPope · Post by **ChaosPope** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:55 am

Just finished the first Carma from gog, looking forward to this. Too bad that the iOS gets it first, my One X is envious now.

Carmanen · Post by **Carmanen** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:18 pm

Yeah, iOS version is out this week, so congrats Apple users but that's no good for me since i have Android device:/ And i'm little bit disappointed in Stainless as they originally said it's going to be out "this summer" on iOS AND(!) Android so i thought it's going to be simultaneous release but i was wrong. Now we have the Android version on the hands of a lone tester inside Stainless so it could take a pretty long time until we can play Carmageddon on our precious Android devices. It's a good idea that fans/community could also playtest the Android version on their device/devices and i would be happy to assist to test it on my Xperia mini st15i and i'm sure it's powerfull enough as Carmageddon is also going to be available on iPhone 4 and maybe iPhone 3GS and those devices are almost as powerfull as Xperia mini (SGX535 is a little bit slower than Xperia's Adreno 205). So, i hope Stainless would consider about sending those early builds to us so we could playtest them and report back of some possible issues/bugs. That way we could speed up the testing process and finally see it on Google Play hopefully sooner than later;)

shane · Post by **shane** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:42 pm

Carmanen wrote:Yeah, iOS version is out this week, so congrats Apple users but that's no good for me since i have Android device:/ And I'm little bit disappointed about Stainless as they originally said it's going to be out "this summer" on iOS AND(!) Android so I thought it's going to be simultaneous release but i was wrong. Now we have the Android version on the hands of a lone tester inside Stainless so it could take a pretty long time until we can play Carmageddon on our precious Android devices. It's a good idea that fans/community could also playtest the Android version on their device/devices and i would be happy to assist to test it on my Xperia mini st15i and i'm sure it's powerfull enough as Carmageddon is also going to be available on iPhone 4 and maybe iPhone 3GS and those devices are almost as powerfull as Xperia mini (SGX535 is a little bit slower than Xperia's Adreno 205). So, i hope Stainless would consider about sending those early builds to us so we could playtest them and report back of some possible issues/bugs. That way we could speed up the testing process and finally see it on Google Play hopefully sooner than later;)

Sorry to hear you feel that way. With regards to the iOS version, we were already ahead with regards to integrating it with our tech engine, whereas with Android we needed to start from scratch so that's taken longer. Progress is going well though and it's looking great on some of our testing devices!

Trent · Post by **Trent** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:49 pm

Why do people get their knickers in a twist so badly over Stainless suggesting an estimate of "this summer"? This is game development, ffs, problems arise which are far from foreseeable. It's not their fault Android is a bitch of a platform to develop for and it would even worse if they released it now, when it works on a few devices, but potentially doesn't work for 95% of the people so very excited to play it.

You use Android, you should expect these sort of roadblocks. It's a fragmented platform with no central company taking control over anything. Just as, being a Windows Phone user, I'm not surprised it's not coming to my preferred platform at all, Android users shouldn't be surprised when their preferred platform's failings stop apps being released at the same time as on iOS and they certainly shouldn't bitch about it at every single opportunity.

Remember, it's thousands of entirely different types of android device it needs to work on vs 8 near identical iOS devices. If you want simple and straight forward for both you and the developers, you're using the wrong platform. If you want customizability and immense choice and freedom in the software and hardware of your device, you've got no reason to complain about extra time being required to make shit for it.

Warning · Post by **Warning** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:58 pm

I can understand why Android users would be pissed over the delayed release, but there are valid reasons behind it being delayed because of hitches with making an app run on a much wider scale of technically varied devices in comparison to Apple, not to mention integrating the engine tech to work with Android in the first place. It's understanable to be annoyed, but it's not fair to kick out at people with Apple devices simply because they got something first because it took less time to develop.

I think that whoever's in charge of managing Carma pages on social networks should run a message up after the iOS release saying something along the lines of, "We haven't forgotten the Android market, we ARE developing an Android version of Carmageddon and we WILL release it as soon as it's completed".

Deadhart · Post by **Deadhart** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:30 pm

Great, I'm pissed now! Fucking cuntflogging apple.

The next logical question is, how much time and credits will I recieve for driving through an apple store?

And before you all go all "But it isn't Apple's fault" and shit, you are forgetting two things:

a) I am really pissed. I was actually thinking of buying the funsize version since they say all money is going towards Reincarnation development, and I had no chance to donate to the cause (i.e. fuck my country and it's relationships with kickstarter and paypal) This way it appears that it will come out after the actual Reincarnation (I know how it goes, don't try to argue with me by saying it will surely come out earlier) I seriously need to cause some damage, right now!

b) Time is running out and the fucking race is going to end soon! I need to farm some minuts. So how many for the apple store again?

Also, whatever logical arguments you're going to use to try and calm me down, doesn't matter. You're goin to get fed to badgers if you try to. I'M SERIOUS.

(rant over)

Carmanen · Post by **Carmanen** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:16 pm

My previous post shouldn't supposed to sound that negative, i'm sorry:) Of course i know that Android is a hell for developing games and i'm still very happy that Stainless decided to make Android version instead of possibly being iOS exclusive game. It's good to hear that development for Android is going well and i'm sure it will be worth the wait, i have strong faith in Stainless Games:)

scorpeeon · Post by **scorpeeon** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:15 pm

Trent: I'm not quite sure how much experience you actually have in Android development, but based on what you say here and said the last time it looks like you're just repeating all that bs the hardcore Apple and Microsoft fans are saying all the time.

IMHO Android is actually far better platform to develop than either iOS (sucking with Objective C no one uses in the world with its horrible syntax) or Windows Phone (with its Silverlight roots and the fact that it has practically no market share).

Also I'm pretty sure that in real life the ratio you said would be about just the opposite: it would work for 95% of the people here, just as practically any other bigger mobile game you can find on Google Play.

I myself wrote a game for Android with OpenGL ES graphics and some native C++ codes, physics engine, etc, and without any device specific testing it just worked perfectly out of the box on every single device I tried, and I tried it on at least 10-15 different devices.

About people's complaining here about Android version delayed: well you can argue with them but they clearly have some points here. It really was promised that it would be released in the summer and also it was suggested it would come out at the same time as iOS version, so after these at least some public announcement about that they're still working on it, etc. would be fair IMHO, especially considering that based on statistics there are at least 3 times more people waiting for Android version than the ones waiting for iOS version.

Toshiba-3 · Post by **Toshiba-3** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:27 pm

In my opinion, Trent is right. All his points seem valid to me.

Also you blame him for being biased, and you reply with a really biased post :/

I don't think it is necessary to have experience as a developer to figure things out here.

Just look at this fact: most professional developers prefer to work on iOS first. There are reasons.

Recently read how a lot of developers don't even like working on Android. And I can understand, it must be a hell of a task to support such a fragmented platform. Also read about iOS users being more incline to search and buy apps, that does make a difference as well for developpers.

You say you tested your app on 10-15 devices. It seems common-sense to me that it is far from enough. There are more Galaxy-branded phones than that and we got three of them here: Note, Mini 2 and Txt. I really noticed how a good bunch of apps don't work correctly on the three devices because of hardware and Android version differences.

And finally, Stainless never promised the games would be out during summer. They said the estimated date would be during summer. They did their best and couldn't meet the dateline. I understand people might be disappointed, but complaining? Com'on, who's working their ass off here? Stainless must work on these goddamn mobile ports, C:R, plus their other projects, and entertain their fanbase.

BTW, they said in a recent video it's still coming, just taking a bit more time.

It's just a game we all played a lot, the GOG release is there for everyone as well, you just have to wait a bit more :)

Fecal-Lord · Post by **Fecal-Lord** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:47 pm

Samsung Galaxy Nexus here (4.1.1/JellyBean). Can't wait for some pocket carma action!

suicidal_banana · Post by **suicidal_banana** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:56 am

You guys (stainless) should realize 50%+ of all apps/games in the android store dont work on 45%+ of the android devices. Theres a reason people can do a chargeback you know.

Id say release it when it works on a mere 10 (recent) test devices, trough the comments on the store you will learn what phones you need to support and which can be neglected, its also very normal to limit your game to only some recent versions of android.

And yea, i totally get how reincarnation has your full attention, rightfully so, i would just have liked to hear this earlyer, so far every single news item about it (including the most recent) says mobile, seeing how you guys called 'ios&android' 'mobile' before, i expected a android version. Like the people above, im a little disappointed. (i do get the why, i just hope you will take my above advice into consideration, its not like your game must support all android devices/versions to be allowed on the android store)

Also, out of curiosity (i dont mind paying really, but i do wonder) will there be a free day for the android version?

I really hope for your guys sake that the game isnt dropped from the iOS store btw.

Psyrgery · Post by **Psyrgery** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:23 am

Trent is right and this satement comes from a hardcore Android user. Android as a platform is heavily fragmented and a bitch of a platform to develop on.

There's a lot of devices with different specs, different hardware, screen resolutions... hell even the Os itself is very fragmented with a lot of devices still using Gingerbread.

I'm just excited someday not too far away I'll be able to play Carma on my S3 and Transformer Tf101 whereas Windows users will not (that's a bitch, honest)

I really appreciate the effort Stainless are putting into it, thanks guys

suicidal_banana · Post by **suicidal_banana** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:35 am

Trent wrote:It's not their fault Android is a bitch of a platform to develop for

Psyrgery wrote:Trent is right and this satement comes from a hardcore Android user. Android as a platform is heavily fragmented and a bitch of a platform to develop on.

Sorry, certainly not trying to start some kind of flame war here, but thats just bullshit, android isnt any harder to develop for then iOS, and the fragmentation you both speak of isnt nearly as bad as you guys think either.

Lets just accept it, but please dont start shouting random things that are simply not true.

I would like some of the most basic questions answered though;

- Rough estimate for android version?

- Will there be a free day for android version?

Thank you.

scorpeeon · Post by **scorpeeon** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:21 am

Toshiba-3: As I said the first time, there's certainly some truth in it but in real life the case is not nearly as tragic he tries to describe it. He's actually very far from being all his points valid.

Also I tried to be really moderate here not to be intrusive and not to swear much (the way he did), and all I was talking about were mere facts and opinions based on my own experience. You can argue about opinions but you can't argue about facts so if you really found my comment more biased than his (me being "really biased" while he being "only" biased), it pretty much means reality looks biased to you.

I do think it is necessary to have experience as a developer if you want to say something relevant about developing to a platform and not just repeating the same bs mantra companies and big attention-seeking blogs are telling which he seems to do and you seem to do/agree too. And you show this very well when all you talk about it "being fragmented" and "developers not liking it" which are the very same points all this big attention-seeking sites are making without having any idea about whats really going on here.

Just look at PC (Windows). There and hundreds or thousands of different gpus, different cpus, different motherboards, different sound cards, many different version of OSes, many different displays or even multi-displays, different keyboards, different mouses, all with different driver versions. Totaling in millions, billions of different configurations (compared to Android where you have several thousands of it). What a nightmare right? Nope.

So what would you say if Stainless said in 2013 that only the OS X version of Reincarnation would be released at that time (yeah i know it's not coming to OS X but it's the same OS in desktop iOS is in mobile: fully under the control of one company with price tags most people can't afford) and when asked about the PC/Linux version they would say sorry, the PC is just too fragmented so it will take several more years to get it working and tested on all the different configurations. You wouldn't be glad now, would you?

The fact is that more than 95% of devices run 2.2 or higher and about 85% run 2.3 or higher, and most apps are fine with that, and so 90% of the most popular games/apps on the Google Play Store work perfectly on 90% of the devices people are using today.

And that's pretty much enough in most cases. Anyone can refund a purchase in 15 minutes if it doesn't turn out to be working on a device, so it's not a tragic. But if you want to make sure it works on all devices it can be installed to, you can also do that and later expand availability to more devices as you test them too.

I tested my app on 10-15 randomly selected totally different devices from more than 5 different manufacturers, on devices ranging from 3" smartphones to 10" tablets and it worked perfectly on all of them without any previous device-specific testing. Sure, there can be devices where it doesn't run so well, but on more than 90% of the devices it will run fine, so this pretty much shows how in reality the 95% devices where it would not work (Trent said) is typically just the opposite in reality, and on 95% of them it would actually work just fine.

Also I love Stainless, love their games, and I know they're working hard on these upcoming games (especially Reincarnation) and I'm not trying to criticize them here. I'm mostly just trying to disperse misconceptions about developing for Android.

Shane said too that the main reason it's delayed is that they were ahead with the iOS version in integrating it with their tech engine where on Android they had to start it from scratch. It's not the fragmentation, nor not liking to develop on Android, and none of those bs misconceptions Trent (and you) talked about. Sure they have to test it on more devices on Android which takes some time, etc, but it's not the main reason why it's delayed, and developing on Android is not nearly as tragic as you say it is.

And they did say it would come this summer and did suggest Android and iOS versions would come together: look here "And so, we're able to announce today that Carmageddon will be coming to your iPod Touch, iPhone, iPad and a variety of Android devices THIS SUMMER! "

So as much I love them I continue to think that it would be fair if they would at least make a public announcement about the progress of the Android version because many fans are anticipating it.

Zimond · Post by **Zimond** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:45 pm

hope apple does not accept it :-/ (butthurt android user)

Toshiba-3 · Post by **Toshiba-3** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:06 pm

You have experience as an Android developer, we have experience as Android users. Get it? We try the apps on our devices, we update Android, we see the differences from another point of vue than the developer's. And it's valid as well. Or actually more in my opinion, as we are the ones who (try to) consume your products.

About the facts we brought up, you talk the same way we do, you just shout your opinion without actual data to strengthen your points. I'll try to go a bit further, but as the matter doesn't interest me that much actually it won't last longer than this post. However I'm a bit surprised you eluded my point "most professional developers prefer to work on iOS first. There are reasons.". Everybody is always complaining how most games and apps come on iOS first, high profile game publishers do the same, iOS first etc. And a few weeks or months later you hear it's finally released on Android. This is a fact you can't deny, and as I said there are good reasons for that. It was the case with Wild Blood and Rayman Jungle Run recently. Oh and also, just read comments in the Google Play store, some games are literally filled with negative comments because of incompatibility. I'm not making things up, those are end-user feedbacks.

And your comparison with PC releases isn't very credible IMO. There are constant delays in release dates, once released they are filled with bugs related to this or that type of hardware (esp. ATi/nVidia) and you have to wait for a handful of patches. Reading changelogs, there are always points that only apply to hardware-specific cases.

I play games and use 2D/3D applications daily for my work so once again I don't need to be a developer to know better or feel like I have an authority in the matter.

About the fragmentation. I find it outstanding how you try to overlook it. It's like a very known fact and at several levels. Starting with Android itself, sure 85% and more are 2.2+ etc. But 25% of that is actually 4.0+ and there's also a bit of 3.x in there. 4.0+ is going to grow a lot in the upcoming months and it is very different from 2.x. And it will never stop. Android will be constantly updated, and manufacturers will always take some time to add their UI overlays onto each version. And yes, model and hardware differences are a big deal. Maybe developers only look for the best selling ones and ditch the other 50% of the market share? Either way, there ARE stupid hardware and drivers differences all around and it isn't nice. It helps the store get filled with negative comments. All of sudden the Tintin game comes to mind.

Now you came again with that sentence: "the 95% devices where it would not work (Trent said) is typically just the opposite in reality, and on 95% of them it would actually work just fine". I am ofcourse very sceptical that it would work correctly out of the box for 19 devices out of 20, but this is something we obviously can't verify (nor do you, actually, unless you are in that industry). Do you have links to documented articles on the subject?

And also for this affirmation: "based on statistics there are at least 3 times more people waiting for Android version than the ones waiting for iOS version" which is quite surprising to me. How come all the publishers prefer iOS if all the profit is actually coming from Android?

Some links:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/darcytravlos/2012/08/22/five-reasons-why-google-android-versus-apple-ios-market-share-numbers-dont-matter/
http://techpinions.com/android-v-ios-part-2-profits/9369
http://mashable.com/2012/05/16/android-fragmentation-graphic/

Finally, who are the professionals here anyway? Certainly not me, nor you, but Stainless. Almost twenty years of game industry experience. Sure they are new in the mobile domain (their NDS/PSP work doesn't count here), but they surely know how to approach this business. They are making a living out of all this. They are trying to bring back the good old fun too. They obviously won't say publicly that they don't like Android, or that it's too difficult to develop a game on this platform and maybe, probably, it isn't the case but there's a good reason for them being ahead on dev with the iOS port rather than the Android one.

Sure they said it was coming this summer. But it was during the Kickstarter campaign. How childish to take that for granted :/

However communicating about the current status of the Android dev would indeed be the way to go. We will see. Maybe we will even be betatesters, who knows? All of sudden everybody would forget about the missed deadline.

(I doubt it though :B)

Trent · Post by **Trent** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:35 pm

scorpeeon wrote:Trent: I'm not quite sure how much experience you actually have in Android development, but based on what you say here and said the last time it looks like you're just repeating all that bs the hardcore Apple and Microsoft fans are saying all the time.
IMHO Android is actually far better platform to develop than either iOS (sucking with Objective C no one uses in the world with its horrible syntax) or Windows Phone (with its Silverlight roots and the fact that it has practically no market share).

I'm not repeating any bullshit from fanboys. I'm talking from experience with all three platforms, both from a user stand point and a developer standpoint. While I've not personally released any apps I have worked on prototypes on all three platforms. I totally agree that Object-C is a complete pile of wank, just like Java is on Android. You realise you can use native C/C++ code on iOS just like on Android? And you realise games on WP7 generally don't touch Silverlight with a bargepole? XNA makes WP7 simplest and easiest of the three to develop 3D games on without having to rely on a thirdparty engine, especially bedroom developers. It's restrictive, sure, but easy. Come WP8 in a month's time and that will support native code too, so soon all three platforms will be pretty much identical to develop for code-wise, with some obvious abstraction of rendering and OS feature integration, naturally.

But I wasn't talking about code. I was talking about the hoops you have to jump through to guarantee it will work on as many devices as possible without trouble for the end user. Like Suicidal_banana said, most apps on Android don't work on most devices, even if one device it works on has the same hardware specs as one it doesn't work on. The reason for this, you know, is because people rush apps out on to Android only testing on a dozen devices and think "Hey, that's good enough, I'm never even catering to 1% of my market, but it works on MY devices, so who cares about other people's?" Great business plan, no? If you only try it on one dozen devices you still have no idea whether it will work on the next dozen.

About people's complaining here about Android version delayed: well you can argue with them but they clearly have some points here. It really was promised that it would be released in the summer and also it was suggested it would come out at the same time as iOS version, so after these at least some public announcement about that they're still working on it, etc. would be fair IMHO, especially considering that based on statistics there are at least 3 times more people waiting for Android version than the ones waiting for iOS version.

Like Toshiba said, they NEVER promised it would be released in the summer, they WANTED both to be released this summer to but, like I said, this is game development and what devs want from a development cycle almost never is what they get. The fact is, like you said, there is no doubt a substantial amount more people wanting an Android version than an iOS version, however if Stainless employed your haphazard attitude to testing and releasing the game there would be far less actually able to play it.

I'm not trying to paint it as tragic, I'm trying to paint the reality of the situation which most Android fanboys viscerally dispute in the face of any evidence and even contradict themselves by saying such things as "Fragmentation isn't an issue! But there's such sheer diversity in hardware and software that most apps don't run on most phones. But there's no fragmentation!"

If you're comparing Android fragmentation to PC's then you are entirely grasping at straws. PC's have standardised and consistent hardware. Yes there's a large separation between low end and high end but it is simple to be able to say "The game will work on this base level of hardware from this version of Windows." GPU manufacturers make universal drivers for their cards for specifically that reason, so there is no inconsistency between, for example, a GF260 and GF680 except a clearly defined feature set.

Android is an entirely different matter. There's no consistency, not even between two versions of the "same" phone. Someone could make a gob smacking game for the Galaxy S3 which makes specific use of the quad-core Exynos chip in it. Galaxy S3 owners get all excited for it but it ends up running terribly on American S3's. Users are baffled. They have a Galaxy S3, why doesn't it work? Most of them don't even realise their version is running a dual-core Snapdragon, all they know is they have a Galaxy S3 running Android. You have a load of different SoC manufacturers doing their own unique thing to eek extra performance out of the chips, you have multiple different GPUs from Adrenos to Malis to NVidia with their "exclusive" Tegra extensions. How on earth can you say that is NOT suffering from fragmentation? Compare to Apple's rigid one device one spec sheet mantra or MS's clearly defined and firm 2 levels of WP7 hardware specs and 2 levels of WP8 hardware specs. Android devices can have any combination of any hardware in them, they can even be running x86 chips ffs!

That attitude of "screw the consumers it doesnt work for, they can just get a refund (unless they bought it 15 minutes before they attempt to play it)" is despicable. It may work for bedroom developers like yourself, but for a professional company with a reputation to hold up like Stainless it would be disaster. It's already bad enough with people getting bent out of shape over them running into development troubles, imagine the shit storm it would stir up if it didn't work for even 1% of people it SHOULD work for? 1% of millions is a hell of a lot of pissed off people.

What you seem to be misunderstanding here is that I'm not saying all android apps will fail on all devices unless they're tested on them. I am saying that it is utterly impossible to be even reasonably sure it will work unless you test on as large a variety as possible. Just because someone's app simple app works fine on the majority of devices does not mean ALL apps will work fine on ALL devices if you test on a tiny fraction of them. That's the most naive attitude to development in the world.

And finally:

Shane said too that the main reason it's delayed is that they were ahead with the iOS version in integrating it with their tech engine where on Android they had to start it from scratch. It's not the fragmentation, nor not liking to develop on Android, and none of those bs misconceptions Trent (and you) talked about. Sure they have to test it on more devices on Android which takes some time, etc, but it's not the main reason why it's delayed, and developing on Android is not nearly as tragic as you say it is.

In a video interview done at EG Expo (can't remember which) Nobby stated that fragmentation was an issue for them especially with regards to the user interface. This is likely the whole reason they are having to rework their tech from the ground up and tailor it for use on Android rather than being able to port the majority of the stable system-generic code from iOS or PC.

Warning · Post by **Warning** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:43 pm

One thing that I'll say is that, strictly speaking, summer ended around September 24th/31st in financial quota terms. Stainless showed that the aimed release for the mobile version was set for Q3 2012 on the video tasters they posted for it, which were uploaded after the kickstarter campaign ended. So, in reality, they're only a few weeks past the projected release date from a game development calendar standpoint.

Toshiba-3 · Post by **Toshiba-3** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:28 pm

To stay ontopic:

Stainless wrote:We haven’t forgotten about our many Carma fans that have Android devices either. We are currently putting the finishing touches to the Android version and we are on target for release by the end of 2012/early 2013. We will also be offering the same ’24 hours free’ promotion that we have done with our iOS version! So keep an eye on Carmageddon.com and your emails for further news in the future!

Teutonicus · Post by **Teutonicus** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:44 am

Oh Dear, Android community is becoming impatient:

JeReMiZ · Post by **JeReMiZ** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:56 am

TWO/THREE more months ??? Oh shit, I can't wait anymore, I will jump in front of the first red bladed car that come across the street!

Trent · Post by **Trent** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:38 pm

Rigor wrote:TWO/THREE more months ??? Oh shit, I can't wait anymore, I will jump in front of the first red bladed car that come across the street!

Or four, five, maybe six more months... That would still be early 2013 ;)

Psyrgery · Post by **Psyrgery** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:52 pm

Fortunately I borrowed my Dad's iPad but gave it back this morning. As soon as it hits the Play Store I'll download it to my S3 :3.

Also I'm trying to trade my Asus Transformer TF101 for an iPad or iPad mini when it's released, Android tablets are a no-no for me :/.

GouldFish · Post by **GouldFish** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:33 pm

Will the Android version work with physical controls, like the Sony Playstation phone or usb/bluetooth controllers?

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