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Mad Benz

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Post by AdR »

As seen on the CWABoard (?)

[nmg]img855.imageshack.us/img855/3612/benzpreview2.jpg[/nmg]

(img tag doesn't work?)

Anyway, this thing has so far 1072 triangles w/wheels, 11 128x128 maps.

Planning on getting this in-game myself, but thing is... been looking around and all I could find was a good tut on how to convert C2 cars to C1 by Mastro666. It's helpful, but doesn't cover everything, like how to run Plaything2 in Windows 7 (it says "failed to create empty document"), or how to get the proper palette for the textures (I know PS 256 colors isn't exactly the right one).

Any help, of course, appreciated!
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Post by Harmalarm »

Hi AdR,

so far a great looking model you there! It reminds me a bit of the BMW featured in GTA3. I think an alternate colour would suit it very well too ;)

first of all I have no experience with plaything on win7. It should be able to run, but I don't know the trick. I'm sure you have tried all the compatibility modes and setting the desktop to 16 bit? Getting pt2 to run is quite essential. I'm still working on a 3ds maxscript which can export all of this, but for the time being pt2 is what you need.

A couple of things are different when setting up a C1 car.

first of all you need to move all models to the origin of the scene (wheels and body are the only ones you have i suppose) The ACT file will reposition the models to their rightful place. Best you do this in plaything if you get it to run. Carma2 wasn't so strict in the model's positions, but c1 is.

Second you need to create a custom pix file for your textures. A Pix archive that is. Tutorial by Tosh over here:

https://rr2000.cwaboard.co.uk/blog/index ... 1-PIX-pack

The palette in photoshop can be set by importing the c1 palette that Tosh made;
https://rr2000.cwaboard.co.uk/R4/PC/Tosh_C1_helpers.rar

other than that you need to create a separate bonnet model for the cockpit view. This is usually just the hood cut-out. I believe this model can use the same pix file as the car uses.

Then there is all the menu bits and pieces. You will need a mugshot and a Car-image. Note that photoshop tends to add meta-data to the bmp format which in turn doesn't work with carmageddit. You might not encounter this issue, but if you do; simply save the bmp in an alternative format and you're ready for import in carmageddit.

I'm not sure what else to cover. I suggest you simply start and when you run into a roadblock don't hesitate to drop your questions. :)
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Post by Toshiba-3 »

Hey AdR,
I am at the office now and in a few hours I'll be off to France till next monday. So I won't be able to help a lot this week :-/

PT2 is really needed as C1 cars need "actoring" and precise coords (Mastro's tut doesn't cover this either). I've written a tutorial explaining how to write the pixpack in hex.
The correct palettes (for menu and ingame graphics) are within the Tosh's C1 helpers (get it at RR2000, PC files section). Pink is for transparency. I suggest you to paint details in the textures directly with the palette because it lacks A LOT of colors and you might have bad surprises if you have to convert to the palette afterward.
About PT2, are you using Cesm's modded PT2? If so you might try with the original PT2 (available at RR too, under C2 files). If you can't get it working this way, I guess the last resort might be Harm's Maxscript.

Good job with the poly saving, polycount seems better for C1 now. As does the texel density.
Ask TTR for the rest of the resources (like distance lod, bonnet model, menu images). If you're really stuck when porting the model, I'll be available by monday evening (GMT +2).
Also, DTD Squad written on the hood ; Beast is planning a DTD comeback?

And I fixed the image tag, edit your post to see how it works ;)

EDIT: Damn you Harmalarm! heh
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Post by Harmalarm »

[quote]EDIT: Damn you Harmalarm! heh[/quote]

HAH, beat ya! Ah well, double info doesn't hurt nobody... :p
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Post by AdR »

Wow, thanks guys for the quick reply!

Harmalarm, very useful info! (yeah you beat Tosh! hehe)

Tosh, thanks for the offer, I wouldn't like to bother you this time and try to do it myself... who knows, first of many? :)
I'll try to use cesm's PT2, as I've tried to run the original at your site but got that error, 16 bit and comp mode on.

So, updated the textures to C1 specs:

[nmg]img233.imageshack.us/img233/4425/benzpreview3.jpg[/nmg]

I think it looks pretty decent considering C1 standards, will have one or two color skins later on, for now I'll try it with this one on (DTD Squad). Yep DTD should come back... someday!
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Post by Razor »

looks fantastic, adr.
[ Razor @ Carmageddon Webmasters Alliance Network ] [ My Downloads ] [ My Carma Items ] [ Conversion lists ]
To download the BETA Mod and more information on my other work, visit me @ https://razor.cwaboard.co.uk
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Post by TTR »

Oh yes, very nice!
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Post by AdR »

Well, got to the point where I can import the model into PT2, and these questions came up:

- What can I use for scale reference (in max if possible)?
- Textures don't show up on the model even if I load them manually (tiffrgb folder, .tif format). Maybe format is wrong?

Thanks!
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Post by AdR »

Enough for today...

[nmg]img163.imageshack.us/img163/538/benzpreview4.jpg[/nmg]
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Post by Razor »

haha! Be sure you replace those sponsors with made up sponsors
[ Razor @ Carmageddon Webmasters Alliance Network ] [ My Downloads ] [ My Carma Items ] [ Conversion lists ]
To download the BETA Mod and more information on my other work, visit me @ https://razor.cwaboard.co.uk
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Post by Econobrick »

Ahoy! The textures look very nice indeed...c1's palette is pretty restrictive, ain't it?

For whatever reason, pt2 can't display textures in the c1 palette, so take the c1 formatted items and put 'em back up to 16 million colors for pt2 purposes?! (comes in handy when the time comes to make the interface image...even though that's a different, but similar, palette unto itself!)
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Post by Harmalarm »

:o That second skin sure is a beauty!

for scale reference I always use the 3ds of the eagle:

http://www.toxic-ragers.co.uk/files/car ... e3_3DS.zip
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Post by AdR »

@Razor: of course! I was considering using the Splat Track sponsors but they were not suitable for what I had in mind... so now it's "Carona" and "Albinostars" :)

@Econo: Thanks! go figure, thought I was doing something wrong... time to fiddle with that today! sure the palette is very restrictive, but I like the look it gives... the race skin even matches this forum!

@Harmalarm: Thanks, very useful! just what I needed

Here's a final preview with the two skins it'll be released:

[nmg]img64.imageshack.us/img64/2281/benzpreview5.jpg[/nmg]

Now, to make this thing work!
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Post by AdR »

So, got it scaled and in PT2, with "some" of the hierarchy done?
What would be the next step? been trying to find a tut but didn't succeed :(

[nmg]img215.imageshack.us/img215/623/pt2pq.jpg[/nmg]
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Post by Harmalarm »

I see that you did most of the car setup in the proper way, but the main hierarchy object is now an empty dummy. What you want is your Madbenz.act as your parent object.

there is small tutorial for moving object within the hierarchy by tosh.

[nmg]https://rr2000.cwaboard.co.uk/R4/TUT/ImportASCinPT2.gif[/nmg]

When you have set it up correctly you can start setting up your txt file. I suggest you pick one of the existing cars and check how it is built up.

You can still use the setup-car option that we normally use for c2. Simply press it, save the model and take the information from the sdf file to copy paste in your car txt file.
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Post by AdR »

Edit: Now I have the right hierarchy in pt2, set up the car, got a bunch of text in the .sdf file (looks like carma2, though), and somehow I should use those values somewhere in the car.txt for C1...
Still, replaced a car with the .dat file to see if at least the model will show up, but it just crashes. I figure I need to set up the .PIX file with the right textures too, right?
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Post by TTR »

Great you advanced so much forward, i don't know about C1 setups, Tosh does it for me lol (very much thanks to him).

Anyway that new skin looks nice! However...those rear lights!?!?! Eew lol, too tuner like.
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Post by AdR »

[quote=TTR]
those rear lights!?!?! Eew lol, too tuner like.[/quote]

lol, yeah, that was pretty much the point :) not meant to be the real car.
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Post by Harmalarm »

[quote=AdR]Edit: Now I have the right hierarchy in pt2, set up the car, got a bunch of text in the .sdf file (looks like carma2, though), and somehow I should use those values somewhere in the car.txt for C1...
Still, replaced a car with the .dat file to see if at least the model will show up, but it just crashes. I figure I need to set up the .PIX file with the right textures too, right?[/quote]

Yes, but I'm not sure if the game crashes because of the missing pix file. Anyhow, you will need it, so better to build it using Tosh's pix file creation tut.

I am sure the game just crashes because the txt of the car you replaced had reference to objects that weren't in the model. It is better to build your own txt.

I know the c1 car setup seems a hassle. I would have to have a txt file in front of me to give a little more details on the setup.

The text in the sdf file is indeed c2 style, however the coordinates and references can be used to quickly setup the c1 txt.

damn, we really need a tutorial for this by now! :(

If I have time, I will have a looksee tonight to give a little better input ;)
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Post by AdR »

Thanks! I've got half of that hex stuff figured out, CarmagEdit, etc. So I'm going to put that together first.

Since there aren't any tutorials on how to make a C1 car from a 3dsmax model, I can put something together once I get the missing bits figured out, and use this one as a future reference.
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Post by AdR »

So, Plaything2 looks ok...?
[nmg]img847.imageshack.us/img847/8973/pt2screen.jpg[/nmg]

PIX pack looks good...
[nmg]img814.imageshack.us/img814/523/carmedit.jpg[/nmg]

But then I get this in game...
[nmg]img692.imageshack.us/img692/1296/ingame1.jpg[/nmg]

I figure there's gotta be something wrong with the materials on plaything2... but what is it? the only mat it has points to the MADBENZ.PIX where all the maps are...
Also, why the hell is sunk on the ground?
any ideas?
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Post by Harmalarm »

ah, you've come a long way. Concider yourself proud for getting it running without crashing!

I had similar errors, even had the same funky material showing up like that with my mustang;

pt2 not showing your materials is the way it should be, and the hierarchy seems fine. The pix pack also looks proper. It seems you have consistant names, so that should not be a propblem.

What probably is the case is that the .MAT file is referencing to materials in the c2 way. Open up your .MAT file with a hex editor and change all material names to the name with extension .MAT and all bitmap names to the names with extension .PIX behind them. For example, take my mustang material MSTGBODY.

................
...<...P–––=ÌÌÍ?
333....A .....!
?€..........?€..
................
.........MSTGBOD
Y.MAT.........MS
TGBODY.PIX.....

The placement of the car is probably because the position of the body element is wrong in the txt file? Does the center of mass effect the height of the car ingame? I had this exact same issue, but I can't seem to remember how I fixed it. Perhaps move the entire car upward in pt2?
my notes are at home again :(

edit: the pt2 shot shows your model with just one material. Is this an old shot? or did you slap one material on the entire car? If so, the game will not know what pix belongs to which mat-id of the model... just thinking out loud here...
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Post by TTR »

Harm, get that wonderful thing ready ;)
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Post by Harmalarm »

:( yeah I know I know... I'm on it!
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Post by AdR »

That was an old shot of PT2, it has the proper materials group, so I've checked on the .MAT and fixed the names... still, they look sort of corrupted?

[nmg]img39.imageshack.us/img39/6126/ingame2y.jpg[/nmg]

Might have something to do with the fact that I've saved them with photoshop in .bmp format?

One question on the material: all the textures are inside the MADBENZ.PIX file, so that means that I should use that name for all the .PIX inside the .MAT file?

Anyway, raised the model in pt2 but didn't do anything. Center of mass coordinates seem ok, even if I raise it doesn't makes a difference.

EDIT: just did a little test, renamed another car .MAT to MADBENZ.MAT to see if something shows up... nothing! seems like the problem might be somewhere else...
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Post by Harmalarm »

no the c1 pix file is basically a pix archive. Each texture has it's own pix entry in the main pix file. That means that each texture has a seperate name with a .pix suffix.

Perhaps you can send me the mat file and pix and I can have a looksee
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Post by TTR »

When you save the BMP, in the options there, did you ensure it's the right coding? Try it at one texture, replace it in the PIX file with Carmagedit and fire up the game.
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Post by AdR »

Something was wrong with the .MAT and .PIX files, so I had to build them again, until I got them right. I think I've learned a bit on how they're set up (after making a copy pasta mess! hehe)... so, it's progress!

[nmg]img641.imageshack.us/img641/3499/ingame3u.jpg[/nmg]

Still, got half of it onto the ground and it wont' move... stay tuned for next chapter :)
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Post by TTR »

Isn't that being caused by the bounding box you got right now? You know the loooooooong list in the TXT file. Take a look at a custom C1 car from any of us, we set it so it won't work as it's something noone really knows how to let it work. So it's set to unusable.

Or perhaps it has to do something with the DAT file, i remember i had this problem when i put demo cars into C1 eons ago. However i still think such would lie within the cars TXT file.
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Post by AdR »

Well I've thought so myself, something wrong on the TXT file, but then I've used another car TXT and just replaced the names... still same problem.
I'm also considering there might be something wrong with the DAT...
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Post by AdR »

Did the menu images and other small stuff... feel free to check it out:

http://www.archcars.net/carma/madbenz.rar

Included the sdf file if someone wants to try to find out what's wrong with the model.
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Post by Harmalarm »

Progress!

I had the same problem. Even had similar issues with the textures.

[nmg]img52.imageshack.us/img52/9450/mat2in.jpg[/nmg]

It has been some months ago, so I forgot the exact fix... My guess is the problem is within the DAT and ACT file. The pivot of the car model is probably set to the center of the main body part? (you can check this by importing the dat file only in pt2. if the body is below the grid you will know) And the actor moves it upward? I guess the game places the main body part in the origin, causing the car to sink the way it does. The wheels are placed correctly to the car, because their position is relative to the position of the main body part. My suggestion is; move the actor of the main body to the origin again, and place the model in the right position (these are the challenging parts of c1 editing, you never know what to expect :D )

I planned to have a nice carma modding day tomorrow, so I can have a look if you cannot find the solution.

edit: oh and the wheels not turning is probably related to either the fact that the centre of gravity is relative to the car, and now also below the ground. That will probably be fixed if you move the car upward. You might also want to check the grooves naming in the txt, but I assume you already did that ;)
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Post by AdR »

So we're narrowing the problem to the ACT or DAT files... did a little comparison:

Stainless' Agent Orange:
[nmg]img23.imageshack.us/img23/7940/pt2screenao.jpg[/nmg]

And this is my model:
[nmg]img856.imageshack.us/img856/6977/pt2screenmb.jpg[/nmg]

This means there should be only one .DAT for the 4 wheels, and the main model should be MADBENZ.DAT, not .ACT... then there's the obvious pivot height difference. in the .ACT, I've raised it manually to see if it makes a difference but it's the same in game. Then the .DAT of the benz shows up higher than AO's model.
Getting somewhere with all this?
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Post by AdR »

Well, it kinda works now...

[nmg]img593.imageshack.us/img593/6105/ingame4.jpg[/nmg]

Had to change the number of bounding boxes to 1 and adjust the values, that did it.
Now, wheels won't even spin, and they look... shallow?
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Post by hazardic »

great! yummy car
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