Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

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Harmalarm
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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Harmalarm » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:40 am

Hey Stifado,

well, the Master-server did work. Unfortunately I have discovered that using my own interenet connection, 20mb ADSL, and creating a master-server is resulting in lagg. Also creating a server using hamachi is giving me lagg from my home connection.

I wonder how the hell C2 is communicating data packages, and why it is so freekin hard for it to create a nice synched game over the net. I mean, come on, how much data has to be sent anyway. It's crazy.

Do you think there is any way c2 can be tweaked, altered in order to improve data-flow over the net? I think for this the source code is needed yes?

anyway, still great work. The tool does what it is supposed to do, and is really straightforward. I like the easy of setting up a connection this way. :tup:

It work's fine from the superduperinternetconnection from the Uni. If we wait 5 years, we can all get that kind of connection @ home and net-gaming will be possible undoubtedly :p

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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Toshiba-3 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:13 am

Heh if there was no firewall at uni, we could place a master server there hehe.
I think we should ask n3wton if he has a solution for us, seeing he already hosts a master server for C2O. *checks...* ...seeing he used to host a master server for C2O...
Stifado, your progie is indeed working perfectly, I'm going to include it in the BBQ pack then along with the latest Hamachi. I'm sure people that are really willing to play C2 online can find a way to get a quality connection to prevent too much lag. And still it's very useful for LAN games, esp. on Vista.

But see, isn't there anything you could create that could be installed on my server, like say, at bbq.toshiba-3.com for example and people would just connect to that address or its IP. A script instead of an executable as master server etc. I think you see my point.
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Stifado
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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Stifado » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am

I wonder how the hell C2 is communicating data packages, and why it is so freekin hard for it to create a nice synched game over the net. I mean, come on, how much data has to be sent anyway. It's crazy.
I've never played Carmageddon on the internet before, and don't know the networking performance of it. So, you're saying that neither Hamachi, nor CarmaUDP don't help the networking preformance aspect of the game(?). If that's the case (though I don't have any experience in game programming, yet :P) I think Carmageddon's networking code make some assumptions about the network speed... the way it sychronizes?... who knows?
Do you think there is any way c2 can be tweaked, altered in order to improve data-flow over the net? I think for this the source code is needed yes?
Theoritically, anything is possible with or without the source code. Though I don't think I'm able for such a thing because I don't have the required knowledge to do so.
But see, isn't there anything you could create that could be installed on my server, like say, at bbq.toshiba-3.com for example and people would just connect to that address or its IP. A script instead of an executable as master server etc. I think you see my point.
So, you're talking about a server-side script that would run on your server (a web server?) and act as the CarmaUDP master-server. If so, I cannot help, cause I don't know anything about server-side scripting. But if someone could create this script, I could adapt CarmaUDP to it.
Aside from master-server, if you want people to connect to your Carmageddon 2 game, then they just need to put your IP/Port as the Broadcast address in loader.

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Toshiba-3
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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Toshiba-3 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:20 pm

Yes we've been able with Harm to connect to eachother directly through the net using our IPv6 addresses only.
And yes a server-side script on this very web server (toshiba-3.com), that'd be awesome. No idea where to look to find someone to do this though :errr:
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Irmo
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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Irmo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:13 am

By the way, is there any chance to see source codes of carma udp?

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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Stifado » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:45 pm


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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by hfc2x » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:33 am

Stifado, I would like to thank you for your amazing work. Now I can play C2 via hamachi and that's something I always wanted to do LOL.

Anyways, I've created a Carmageddon wiki page for CarmaUDP. It would be a honor if you could add more info about it.

Thanks again!

PS: here is the link: http://carmageddon.wikia.com/wiki/CarmaUDP

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timmy76
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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by timmy76 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:55 am

just a quik question, would this work for SoD? from me and dalags (from cwa)

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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Stifado » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:38 am

I'll add some more info about it then. ...though I don't expect people to be interested in the internal details of the program that much, but anyway :P

So, what's that "SoD"?

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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by timmy76 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:46 am

SoD = Seduction Of Destruction banger racing mod for c2
SoD v v
[youtube]lvNlJ2z6xZ8[/youtube]

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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Stifado » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:40 pm

I suppose so. I cannot find the game to test it though...

You can of course download CarmaUDP, test it, and let us know.

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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Toshiba-3 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:10 pm

Timmy, there's no way to play SOD in multiplayer without a new release.
As it is now there's no track with multiplayer start points. SOD wasn't thought with network game in mind. I'm 100% sure it would work with CarmaUDP if the basic necessities of network gaming were fullfilled. This involve in first place multiplayer start points and then some cars to be set as default ("eagle"), at least 6 or 8.
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Irmo
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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Irmo » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:09 pm

Really great (and hard) work.

Thanks much, Stifado!

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timmy76
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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by timmy76 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:38 am

Timmy, there's no way to play SOD in multiplayer without a new release.
As it is now there's no track with multiplayer start points. SOD wasn't thought with network game in mind. I'm 100% sure it would work with CarmaUDP if the basic necessities of network gaming were fullfilled. This involve in first place multiplayer start points and then some cars to be set as default ("eagle"), at least 6 or 8.
only just managed to get the time to reply to this D:, But how much work would it take to make the spawn point's ect cause me n a accomplice are going to try.

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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Toshiba-3 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:00 pm

Not THAT much work basicaly. But to be done correctly a new version of SOD should be built IMO. Because in multiplayer cars and tracks shouldn't different from a player to another if you see what I mean.
At first it's just basic paperwork: opening tracks in PT2 and writing down multiplayer starting points. Then setting the cars' category (eagle, all, etc.) (the game needs that). Tracks might need some sorting as well.

Seriously, making a multi-only build is the best approach IMO. But then it's a lot of work as it involves doing everything I did for BBQ but now for SOD.

And also you'll encounter the internet lag problem as well as it's the same game engine with the same tunneling software. It's not easy :-/
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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by timmy76 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:14 pm

well for now were gonna have ago and see what happens

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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Skw » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:39 am

About Carmageddon 1: As this is a 16-bit DOS application, I don't think I could handle it, sorry.
First, thank you very much for making Carmageddon 2 networking possible! I love you.

Notice: There is official Windows 32bit-version of C1 too! It comes from "Max Pack" and exe is "CARM95.EXE".

If you get "Max Pack" somewhere, the Windows installer is located at "CARM95"-folder on the CD ("Setup.exe") and game works with a burned CD too (wink wink). I don't recommend any no-cd exes, because they seem to mess the game and you need to reinstall. Remember to choose "Maximum install" (naturally).

I would really like to see working networking in C1.

Ps. Please upload files to somewhere else than Rapidshare; I am somehow blocked there.

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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Stifado » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:42 pm

I cannot find a way to download Max Pack though...

CarmaUDP: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ARMG30PE
Source Code: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XR736I1T

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Post by Skw » Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:48 am

Okay, I sent you a DL link. Check your PM inbox!

Please tell me asap when you have DL'ed it, I will remove the file from the server then.

Thank you for your new DL links!

EDIT Forgot to tell that C1 installer will ask for a password in the last stage of the install. Type there anything you can remember.

When you start the game, it'll ask the password you entered in the installer.

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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Skw » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:59 pm

CarmaUDPLoader works great!

Check this:

[youtube]C-8gmGh1HOg[/youtube]

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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by BlackArmor » Mon May 30, 2011 2:27 pm

Its WORK! Windows 7 and Windows XP successfully connect and see each other. But even the most important thing is to not put Windows 7 compatible with Win 98 \ ME, but need to put Windows XP sp2 compatibility. In the file CarmaUDPLoader not need to set compatibility. As a result, I have everything working, 2 computers see each other.
Many thanks to those who made this program. Be sure to make a donation))

??? ????????! Windows 7 ? Windows XP ??????? ??????????? ? ????? ????-?????. ?? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ?? Windows 7 ?? ?????????? ????????????? ? Win 98\ME , ? ????? ??????? Windows XP sp2 ?????????????. ? ????? ????? CarmaUDPLoader ?? ????? ??????? ?????????????. ? ????? ? ???? ??? ????????, 2 ?????????? ????? ???? ?????.
??????????? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ?????????. ??????????? ?????? ?????????????))
???? ????????? ?? ????? ??, ??????????? ?????? ? ??????!!

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Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Toshiba-3 » Mon May 30, 2011 6:02 pm

Thanks for the feedback :]
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Re: Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Elvis » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:31 pm

Hi there, I just want to say that I am very happy that you guys still care about this game. I am the big fan of this game since its released and Stiffado thank you for such a big progress for network play.

I tested C2 and BBQC2 with UDP, and LAN works great, C2 had more crashes than BBQ but I can live with that. As for playing over the internet (only Hamachi was successful, Tunngle wasnt) I had big problems with lag and many weird things happened during the play.

What can I say, its a big progress for LAN, I hope that someone will make some patch to fix network play over internet because this game is the best game ever (C2), nothing can compare with this game.

Best regards

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Re: Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Toshiba-3 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:36 pm

Thanks for the feedback Elvis :)
About BBQ, did you use the latest WIP? (not the same from RR2000 or from the thread). It works great in LAN with nGlide etc.

Last summer we tested a lot of ideas to apprehend Internet lag/out-of-sync.
But didn't succeed yet. 1Pv1P with high speed connexions give great results but that's about it really.

Feedback on this makes me want to continue the project :ssmile:
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Re: Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Elvis » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:41 pm

Hi Toshiba-3,

First I want to thank you for all what you did for this great game, I follow your work all these years.

About BBQ, I tested the version from RR2000, didnt know about latest version from June. I will definitely test it in the next few days.

Well,in my opinion BBQ is well conceived. I tested C2 and BBQC2, but after too many crashes with C2, I decided to continue to test only BBQ.I did test with addon cars (added about 20 cars) and LAN worked very well with UDP.
For me only UDP was successful for LAN, tried many wsock.dll files but it gives me game freezes every time when I click on network play (for C2 and BBQ). Test was including 1Pv1P over LAN and hamachi and tunngle. The strangest thing that Tunngle for which many say is a much better program than hamachi didnt give LAN at all. Then I installed hamachi and LAN over UDP started to work, I was so happy about it. I thought OK LAN works fine, LAN over internet should work also, but lag and bad synchronization with lag disappointed me. Then I decided to try it again without addon cars(everything on default), with different settings on "compatibility mode" tab, with other nglide versions and glide wrappers, firewall settings......etc.....but lag still remains. BTW test was performed on two PCs, one has Vista 32-bit and second is Win7x64, both were connected with cable and wifi (the same result no matter wifi or cable), and ADSL 5mb.
Now Toshiba, I have few questions:

1) Why always ntdll.dll appcrash apears after game's exit (if I set compatibility mode to win 98 exit is normal but LAN is not showing)?
2) The latest version of BBQ (june2011) doesnt include UDP just bbq_coals.exe, should I add UDP manually from older version or something else should be done in order to test LAN game?
3) I didnt change anything about IPX protocols on my network adapters on both PCs, should I change it or not?
4) You said 1Pv1P (version from June2011) gave you great results, how good was results about lag and what is the recommended internet speed for that great results?

Best regards,
Elvis

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Re: Carmageddon 2 - Networking without IPX

Post by Toshiba-3 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:31 pm

1) This is a separate issue. It should be easy to solve by following infos found on the net. Stuff like disabling UAC comes to mind.
2) Yeah you either add CarmaUDP or WSOCK32.
3) Forget about IPX :ssmile: The protocol is directly converted to UDP.
4) The connexion I was talking about was an University connexion (Harm's uni), and the speed was really great, can't remember precisely how fast it was though. Harm might. Also the Host is the one who must have that connexion.
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