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BBox/Wheels out of all shapes
SoupaVedg created BBox/Wheels out of all shapes on Wed Sep 10, 2003 4:46 pm
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I just finished the BBox of my car and when I tried it, C2 crashed and it said Wheels out of all shapes. Why? Anyone can help me?
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Forsaken Brolly on Wed Sep 10, 2003 4:50 pm
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i asked the same thing. i think you gotta fix the BBox in the .txt

i never figured it out
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random_monkey on Wed Sep 10, 2003 4:54 pm
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You've also got to change the wheel points when you make the bbox... in the text file:

<blockquote>// Wheels entry #4

1 // Type

Right rear // Identifier

RRWHEEL.ACT // Actor

0.16,0.06,0.24 // Position

0 // Steerable flags

0 // Driven flags

0.013000 // Suspension give

1.300000 // Damping factor

1.000000 // Fractional reduction in friction when slipping

85.700000,85.700000 // Friction angles

2.000000 // Traction fractional multiplier

0.050000 // Rolling resistance</blockquote>

One for each wheel
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Deep_Blue on Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:47 pm
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Like R_M said, If your bbox fits your car-check to make sure the wheel positions aren't outside (bigger numbers +/- than your bbox coords.)

If you got that error-your wheel positions (rotational centers) are outside the box.
***When I die may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline***
SoupaVedg on Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:16 pm
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Ok... And if they are, how do I repair that?
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random_monkey on Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:26 pm
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just edit the bold numbers I outlined in my last post - you'll need to do 4 of them.

Basically, it's telling carma where to make the skidmarks come from, so it doesn't need to be perfect - just so's it doesn't look stupid.

Just make sure they're in the bbox, and it /should/ fix it
SoupaVedg on Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:38 pm
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So, I can like, write any number or do it have to be specifics ones?
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random_monkey on Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:25 pm
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Sorry man, it's a coordinate.

I usually make a point on my model, where I want it to be, take down the coordinate, and put that in.

You've done the bbox, so I figure you can work out the coordinate of a wheel location.
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autopilot on Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:33 pm
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Basically its the middle of your wheel, open your car in car ed and select the mid point of your wheel and look at the coords car ed shows. just do this for the FL and RL wheel, and when you put the positions for the opposite right wheels you'll just have to take out the "-" in front.

And yes it makes where the skid marks show, if you select the dead center of the wheel the marks seem to appear off the inner edge of the wheels, so its usually best to select the outter edge of your wheels for best realism.

if it still seems to be crashing, and saying the wheels are outside shapes check your Y position of the wheels to, cause they might be too low compared to the body, put them to 0.7 or even higher, it doesnt seem to have an effect on anything.
SoupaVedg on Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:57 pm
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Ok, I did try everything you told me, but it still doesn't do...

Maybe you'll see what I did wrong if I show you all of the points and the wheels points too:

BBox Points:

// number of shapes

polyhedron

20 // number of points

0.153333, 0.021388, -0.387928

-0.176667, 0.021388, -0.387928

0.156667, 0.151232, -0.384251

-0.176667, 0.151232, -0.384251

-0.188207, 0.029692, 0.188110

0.171063, 0.029631, 0.188110

-0.192808, 0.066071, 0.394292

0.177730, 0.065924, 0.394292

-0.192808, 0.137118, 0.394292

0.177730, 0.137353, 0.394292

-0.183606, 0.230255, 0.357763

0.177730, 0.230659, 0.357398

-0.183872, 0.239388, 0.278082

0.174397, 0.239791, 0.278324

0.156667, 0.203562, -0.139909

-0.176667, 0.203562, -0.139909

-0.112609, 0.273158, -0.043414

0.112609, 0.273158, -0.043414

-0.112609, 0.280425, 0.146977

0.112609, 0.280425, 0.146977



Wheels Points:

// Wheels entry #1

0 // Type

Left front // Identifier

FLWHEEL.ACT // Actor

-0.168,0.7,-0.225 // Position

1 // Steerable flags

0 // Driven flags

// Suspension give: Each of your wheels has this attribute. The average is about 0.01.

// Stepping it up to 0.015 will give you a super plush ride, just make sure

// you car is far enough off the ground to allow it.

0.009000

1.100000 // Damping factor

1.000000 // Fractional reduction in friction when slipping

// Friction angles: Each of your wheels has this attribute. This value determines how much

// traction your wheels have. The closer the number

// is to 90 the more traction you will get. 83 is average, but 89 is about as much

// as you can handle before you get a headache.

85.700000,85.700000

2.000000 // Traction fractional multiplier

0.050000 // Rolling resistance

// Wheels entry #2

1 // Type

Right front // Identifier

FRWHEEL.ACT // Actor

0.1539,0.7,-0.224 // Position

1 // Steerable flags

0 // Driven flags

0.009000 // Suspension give

1.100000 // Damping factor

1.000000 // Fractional reduction in friction when slipping

85.700000,85.700000 // Friction angles

2.000000 // Traction fractional multiplier

0.050000 // Rolling resistance

// Wheels entry #3

1 // Type

Left rear // Identifier

RLWHEEL.ACT // Actor

-0.168,0.7,0.225 // Position

0 // Steerable flags

0 // Driven flags

0.009000 // Suspension give

1.100000 // Damping factor

1.000000 // Fractional reduction in friction when slipping

85.700000,85.700000 // Friction angles

2.000000 // Traction fractional multiplier

0.050000 // Rolling resistance

// Wheels entry #4

1 // Type

Right rear // Identifier

RRWHEEL.ACT // Actor

0.1539,0.7,0.224 // Position

0 // Steerable flags

0 // Driven flags

0.009000 // Suspension give

1.100000 // Damping factor

1.000000 // Fractional reduction in friction when slipping

85.700000,85.700000 // Friction angles

2.000000 // Traction fractional multiplier

0.050000 // Rolling resistance
The_Death on Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:21 pm
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the y values for wheel positions are too high - wtf, even a monster truck has less than 0.7 as y mid-wheel.

so change the 0.7 in all wheel positions to 0.1 or something like this
SoupaVedg on Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:27 pm
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I know... That's because I tried Auto's idea... Even before that, it didn't worked...
Haze on Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:28 pm
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what the hell are you talking here? 0.1 as an 'y' coordinate? stop talking bullshit. i can't believe you cannot set up that fuckin' bbox. there's an idiot's guide at dtd it's so clear that even the dumbest 90 year old fart could understand it.
The_Death on Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:42 pm
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what's the problem man? 0.1cu=0.5 meters=50cm right? and what's the problem with that?

anyway autopilot i right, i didn't read that, putting a big number as y doesn't affect c2

so why don't you use the pt "convert asc to physics shape" function, it's the easiest method to get a detailed bbox work
SoupaVedg on Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:47 pm
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That what I did, Death... I still don't understand why it don't work...
The_Death on Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:23 pm
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i haven't yet seen a bbox to vave the points in such an order - probably you didn't triangulate it well?

i guess pt2 needs some triangles in your asc to know the order in which it should arrange the points. make sure your bbox (as you defined it in cared) is an encloded object, i.e. it has no holes, all its surface is covered with triangles.

i guess the bbox you made was the only object in the asc right (that's tha way it should be)

i'm currently workin' on my first car, i don't know how to use pt2 but this thing worked for me at the first try, and now i got a 28-points bbox.

now, why i'm sayin' that, i haven't yet seen such a bbox, with that kind of points-order. pt2 generated for me a bbox which's first 14 point are with negative x coordinates and the last 14 with positive
SoupaVedg on Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:33 pm
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I'll retry... But... By which side did you started? Front left, front right, rear left or rear right? Or did you made two parallel points at once?
The_Death on Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:42 pm
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it really shouldn't matter.........

i started plotting points in te left view, then drag'em to the appropiate negative x (left side) using the front and top views, then select all of them and iterate with -1 as x scale, then started defining triangles /making little adjustments to coordinates so as to cover the car, so only the down-side of the wheels remained visible, then exported the component then converting to asc and from here you know what to do.

that's it- it should work, only take kare when you finish the bbox you shouldn't see any part of your bodywork through it. and the middle of the wheels shoud also be somewhere inside.

if it still doen't work for you, you can attach the obj if it isn't too big and i'll try fixing the txt. but don't expect quick results since i'm very busy 'till sunday
SoupaVedg on Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:45 pm
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I somehow did the same thing as you, but I did it a couple of points at a time. I'll retry the way you did and IF I really ain't able to make it work, I'll send you the .obj

Thanks for the help.
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random_monkey on Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:16 pm
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Dude, your FL wheel position is exactly the same as your RL wheel position. And your FR is the same as RR... Is it meant to be like that? - maybe that's the problem :/



Anyways... with the bbox creation...

I don't use pt2 to make me bbox - if you're having some trouble doing it that way and are at a loose end, you could always try it my way...

I plot the points in the left viewport, and drag them from the top to the correct place at the left side of the vehicle. Then I edit it slightly so it fits more with the shape, and isn't just a flat side...

Then, starting at the bottom front of the car and working toward the rear, I select each point individually and write down it's coord's in the txt file... all should start with a '-'

Then I just copy that chunk, and paste it, remove all the -'s and there's me bbox

Keeping the model open, I select the points for the wheels and make sure they're inside the bbox, then write them down too...



then all should work.
SoupaVedg on Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:22 pm
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Ok... So you start at the bottom front... But on which side? Left or right? And I don't really understand why you say that all of the coord should start with "-" then you remove all of 'em...
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random_monkey on Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:45 pm
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I start in the bottom left, by the whole '-' thing, I mean the line...

here's an example of one of the points in a bbox:

-0.266,0.080,-0.533

As you can see, it starts with a '-', which means it's on the left hand side of the car, in the negative side of x... thus all the points down the left hand side will have a -'ve X bit...

So if you were to flip the points, to make up the right hand side of the car, you get this:

0.266,0.080,-0.533

as you have removed the '-'

By doing this all down the car, you get a bbox something like this:

8

-x,y,-z

-x,y,-z

-x,y,-z

-x,y,-z

x,y,-z

x,y,-z

x,y,-z

x,y,-z
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Deep_Blue on Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:46 pm
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In 3d space-the coords on the LEFT and the FRONT and below the "ground" are negative numbers. "0,0,0" being the point dead center where all the axes intersect. (That's zero X, zero Y, zero Z).

Positive numbers are on the TOP, BACK, and RIGHT sides of your model.

So all the numbers on the left and front of your car are negative numbers (you don't want your car's box IN the ground so your bottom coords are usually positive, albeit small positive numbers.

The numbers on the right, back, and top are positive numbers.

The X axis is side-to-side, the Y axis is top-to-bottom, the Z axis is front-to-back.

You'll notice that your car sits on the Y axis above zero-Zero Y is the "ground" it rolls on.

If your wheels are outside the box, say your left front wheel center of rotation (the imaginary point where it would have an axle thru it-is X(0.20) and Y(0.06) and Z(0.306), if you BBox (the bottom line between the corner coordinates you enter) is X(0.19) and Y(0.08) and Z(0.266) your wheel is outside all of the bbox coords.

All of the coords are straight X,Y,Z order.



***When I die may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline***
SoupaVedg on Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:48 pm
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Another question RM... You said something about the wheel point... It's the rotation point of the wheel, right?

And normally if you have to do one, where do you situate it on the wheel? On the exterior side of the wheel or on the side that's inside of the wheel piit?
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random_monkey on Thu Sep 11, 2003 7:05 pm
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I usually take it from the middle of the wheel, where it's rotating around - but I think it was Auto said to take it from the outside, to make the skidmark look ok. I've not encountered that, but I hardly study my cars closely - sometimes I even miss the fact that the skidmarks aren't even near the wheels...

but it shouldn't matter too much aslong as they're in the bbox :smile:

Did you catch my fl/rl, fr/rr comment too?
SoupaVedg on Thu Sep 11, 2003 7:09 pm
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Yes, I did, but I think I missread someone post about those... That's why they were almost the same(since the rear wheels were the opposite. Ex: FLwheel: -0.4,0.022,0.014 RLWheel would have been: 0.4, 0.022,-0.014)
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random_monkey on Thu Sep 11, 2003 7:12 pm
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yeah, what was meant there was that if it was FLwheel: -0.4,0.022,0.014, then FRWheel would have been: 0.4, 0.022,-0.014
SoupaVedg on Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:04 pm
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It still doesn't work... So I was wondering if it could be because the front of my BBox is narrower than the rear of it... Could that be the problem? Even if when I do the BBox, there isn't a thing out of it?
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random_monkey on Fri Sep 12, 2003 2:02 pm
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That wouldn't be a problem :/

Did you fix the wheel position problem?
SoupaVedg on Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:09 pm
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Yeah, I did, but it still didn't worked... So I asked The Death if he could make the Bbox. When I was making the BBox, Cared showed weird readings... At a point that was almost at the zero of Z, it positionned this point at -6.sumethin... when in fact it should had been close to -0.something...
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