For Deep_Blue...

[Axle]

I've got a 1983 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency Brougham thats just sitting around, not doing anything. If you haven't seen a pic, heres one... Ok... well, i've been just sitting around wondering what i'm gonna do with it... when i realized how much fun i could have with it! I'm going to a junkyard this month, and i'd like to pick up an engine for swapping purposes. The current engine is a POS (305 ci, 143 hp). What should i look for? I know a Olds 455 would be good, or even a 400, but i need the MASTERS opinion! Is this a good idea? Will it be possible to find an engine and make the swap for under $1000? Under $500? Please help! I want to make a killer beater!

[RavageWolf]

Ahh a 4 door sleeper sedan, Perfect! Imports don't know what hit em!

-Oh yeah, they will

[ November 03, 2002: Message edited by: Deep Blue ]

[Econobrick]

[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: Econobrick ]

[Slayer]

swapping to another GM small block would be the easiest thing to do, say a 327 or 350/400 from 1963 to 1971 which is when they had the most power, but it might be hard to pick up one of those 330hp '69 350's cheap...the most bang for the buck would be a 455 which you could definitely get for under a grand, (a 454 is good too, but people usually want more for 'em) but you have to worry about motor mounts and stuff, it may just bolt in with the '76 olds mounts but i'm not sure....another concern would be is the motor going to need to be rebuilt? if it's coming from a junkyard probably yes, but if you can get it running in the yard bring a gauge and check the oil pressure, and listen for any rod knock or anything... maybe try looking around your area for old buick's and oldsmobiles for sale from the early to mid '70's.... they usually had 455's in them around then... after '72 they were down on power but still had gobs of torque...you could make a killer olds 98 with a '70 to '72 455, maybe buy a cam for it, and pick up a used edelbrock intake and an old 850 holley or 750 eddy carb, then drive the wheels of it!

[Axle]

i just printed that out, that will go in my engine swapping bible, thank you very much rave. I dunno, my inferior engine knowledge tells me "go find an olds 455" or something close to that... hrm... I had the most awesome vision of my car today... i'd tell you guys but i'd hate to get all sappy on ya

[Deep_Blue]

NKay... Lemme just say that changing the engine doesn't always make a hotrod.

I had a shortbox Chevy C10 van that had a 307 (harder to find now than friggin' Waldo).

Had an Edelbrock Torker and a Holley 750 and an Isky tall street cam in it aoupled with the stock 3-spd manual trans (converted to top-loader 'cause I got tired of dropping the damn shift linkage.).

Lowered down and with a set of traction bars-that damn truck useta smoke everything but the really built stuff.

How many miles on that motor? Is it still a baby? (under 50,000) or has it eleventeen-million miles on the clock?

Even if high mileage-I wouldn't waste my bread on somebody else's headaches-which yer gonna get if you get a scrapyard motor.

Garonteed..

Remember-big don't mean fast-not always.

First of all, ya gotta take into consideration that yer gonna try and make a barge fly, dig? It can be quite an undertaking-or shall I say 'out-taking'...as in taking out alla the heavy shit that's built into that car-that car was built more for the comfort of old ladies in the back seat-not racing.

But it can be done.

The 305 you got in there is rebuildable.

It's basically the same short stroke setup as the 327-which means it'll have plenty of high-end torque if you were to, say....bolt a set of milled and ported 350 heads on it and match 'em to a nice high-volume intake. (whoa-instant '350'!)

Another option which not only makes for super-quick throttle response and smoother powerband is the aftermarket Holley Throttle Body fuel injection kit.

Cheap enuf and easy as hell to add on.

Then you can chuck a 'Power chip' in yer ECM and make it think it's a Corvette. Spend about 160 bucks on a slightly hotter cam and a few more bucks on harder valves and seats-

Combine that with a TH350 with a hi-stall converter and you got a very heavy rocket.

Now, If you opt to rebuild-which you can do at your leisure (hell, nobody's made of money-'ceptin' for Jesse James), You have the option of throwing some Hi-domed Wiseco pistons in there (watch head clearance) to increase compression further and the alloy will heat evenly ensuring more complete combustion.

Chances are-if your motor was driven 'normally' (not repeatedly redlined/run low on oil constantly/forever overheated/run with the same oil in it since it was built, etc. it'll be in good enuf shape to beef up.

GM engines are made of tough stuff. (4 years in the Tonawanda N.Y. engine plant qualifies me to say this.).

'Course then after ya do alla that (which can be done for the same or a lil' more than what you'd pay for a barge engine and alla the shit yer gonna hafta buy to make the swap), yer gonna hafta stiffen the springs and add some gas shocks-otherwise alla that newfound power is gonna be wasted being used to slam the back bumper offa the ground when the car squats on takeoff...

Oh, yeah..redo the U-joints and inspect/re-oil the rear end too.

Sucks when ya spray gear chunks all over the poor bastard behind you or shit out a driveshaft and take some poor ped off at the knees

All's a 400 or so is gonna do is waste fuel.

In that car the difference won;'t be much.

I had another shortbed van that had a 400/400 shoehorned into it that couldn't get outta it's own way.

Build the existing motor, my son.

Ye shall reap the rewards of more horsies-higher revs and more efficient fuel usage.

However, if you DO decide to swap mills, if you look at the subframe rails on either side a the existing motor mounts-you'll see a buncha holes that don't make sense right away.

EVERY full-size GM car has ALL of the holes necessary to mount ANY GM motor mount into alreay drilled into it.

Many of the mid-sized '80's GM cars had this too.

I once put a 350/350 combo (The lighter tranny for the V6 is one-piece bellhousing so it wouldn't work...) in an '83 Malibu mid-size wagon where the Buick 'odd-fire V6 used to sit-alla the holes are already there. Ya just gotta grab new mounts (dirt cheap).

You'll prolly hafta add on an electric cooling fan 'cause the fan shroud to hood clearance will be too close-on the malibu it woulda stuck up 4 inches above the hoodline-get a fan outta a Plymouth Horizon/Dodge Omni-biggest stock electric fans I've ever seen=more than enuf to keep things cool

[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: Deep Blue ]

[RavageWolf]

Weight reduction will help those "barges" (but that might mean gutting the interiour)

Dunno bout lighter parts (might become costly)

[Axle]

i have nothing other to say than i love you deep_blue, in a purely hetero-sexual way...

ive seen barges fly before, tahts why i want mine flying. this is gonna be so much fun! *giddy* engine mileage = 152k, driven roughly (redlined maybe thrice times) for the last 2k, overheated once or twice

/goes off to check prices in his summit catalog

[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: Axle ]

[autopilot]

that car should be carmageddonized

[Axle]

summit sucks cock... junkyard time

[Buzz]

summit sucks cock... junkyard time

heh, know how you feel

[Slayer]

no! small block=bad! listen, you need TORQUE to acclerate, and with a mild build-up, the best you could hope for with a 305 is about 295hp and say, 310ft/lbs of torque..and that wouldn't cut it for me...it's easy to get power with a big block, now i'm more familiar with mopar engines but i know the GM's too, and i think a 455 is the way to go, i'm sure you could pick up an early 70's buick or olds around your area for WAY less than 1000 bones, maybe one someone is sellin for a derby or somethin, then you got your engine, mounts and probably almost evreything you need for the swap....it ain't hard to make a barge fly, but to do it cheap, you need the cubes..my 67 chrysler, weighs at least 4900lbs, it has an original 440, with a very mild build-up on it, stock bottom end, stock intake, stock "log" exhaust manifolds the only power adders were a slightly higher lift/duration cam than stock, i forget the exact specs, i believe it's 272/290 duration and .462/.470 lift and a holley 670 carb (i need a 770 though)... it's never been down the quarter mile, but on the 'old stop light grand prix it has taken mustangs camaro's and even a new jaguar! ...granted a cavalier will out probably out handle and clearly out brake these barge racers, people never expect something so huge to be so fast

[Axle]

Ok... even though Deep_Blue's idea sounds alot cheaper... i'm wanting what Slayer wants, this fucker to just flat out run. Car weighs 4450 lbs, I've seen a car exactly like it do wheelstands (Olds 455 swap, new drivetrain, 150 shot of nitrous). I've seen this car fly before, i want to make it fly. It will take some debating AND some junkyard visits but i think i'm going with the big block idea. I need to know what cars hold the 455 in em so i can make sure i don't pass a gem up at the yard.

hehe, i'm sure no one will notice the big meats under the fender wells... so many ricers will feel the pain of foghorn!

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Axle ]

[CADster]

you will need more then a big-block to run with cars 1/3 your weight. of course pulling the bumpers alone will save you 600lbs.

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: CADster ]

[Deep_Blue]

'Kay. If ya wanna good motor-go find ya a wrecked later model Chevy SUV or full sized pickup. I forget which pickup exactly but most of that model had a very well built 454 in it.

Slayer, dude. Small block motors are perfect for racing. Ya know part of the reason those ricey rockets are so damn fast from the get-go? It has absolutely nothing to do with weight, balance or horsepower.

It's revs....LOTsa revs.

You pile up enough of 'em and they'll move ANYthing.

Small block mid displacement motors are perfect for this.

Plenty o' balls for pulling (which is what racing a barge is more like-tractor pulling), and the abilty to outwind any big blocker.

Big block motors are good for low-end torque which you need for hauling heavy loads at low speeds-mud-bogging and pulling stumps and such, but-what's the first thing you do when you start off the line in a race? PUNCH IT!

Thass right. Thereby using your entire powerband and first two gears just getting off the damn line.

Then whattya got? A real big heavy noisemaker-cause by the time you got any road speed up-you're already above the powerband and overrevving it.

Then if you put in shorter gears in the rear axle-you lose even the low-end torque benefits.

Think of it this way-Big block=longer stroke/higher torque at lower rpms-BUT you end up using 'em up too quick uless you do some really creative rear-end/transmission gearing.

Small Block=shorter stroke/roughly the same torque output but at higher RPMs (which is what the hell yer doin' ANYWAYS.. and with the stock gearing in the rear and a high stall converter (minus the accumulator) you'll get the 'launch' ya want WITH the longer powerband up thru the revs. Big blocks have a nice launch, but much above that-they.ve already used it up. They're more for lugging.

I was you I'd stick with the 350/350 combo-tried and true. You can gut your 305-throw in some new bearings-a high volume oil pump, a basic "engine rebuild kit" (new rods/bearings/pistons/rings ((your old crank may need to be upgraded)), some 350 heads(ported.polished and matched with the appropriate intake-also ported). A mild street/strip cam and a Holley or two 750s and if you're lucky-ya can find an old Cat Bulldozer kickin' around that doesn't run and swipe the blower off'n it (if you go this route-you'll need to get the appropriate manifold for it-most old Cats used 471 or 671 roots type blowers made by Weiand, with some nice alloy valves and new seats and valve springs (oh, yeah-Isky makes a whole 'head kit' with roller rockers to keep cam wear to a minimum at high revs).

Equip your automatic trans with a hi-stall converter and rip out the accumulator spring and it'll slap shift like the Hurst setups-you can actually spin the tires on low upshifts!.

'Sides. Small block parts are more plentiful and cheaper than parts for the big blocks.

If ya do alla that-throw some decent headers and a low-restriction exhaust and you got a very powerful land-yacht.

If ya need any more convincing-yer sled's already set up for a small-block.

Engine swaps-especially type changeovers seem like a great idea until you realize that you have to redesign the whole damn car to compenstae the different geometry of things and the gross weight differences.

If you got lotsa time and are good with a torch and have access to a machine shop-more power to ya-but I think you'd like the results from an 'instant 350' much much better. AND ya can do most of that work where the car sits 'cause it's already set up for the small block. I remember ya sayin' ya wa'ant much of a wrench in one of yer previous posts. That's OK..You attempt this and there won't ever be anything again that you'll be afraid to strip down and rebuild.

This is how ya learn-and it's kick-ass fun to boot.

Go watch some guys that already know what they're doing and ask lotsa questions-I mean, until they buy you a six pack and tell you to get lost kinda questions-(Psst-get yer hands dirty first before opening yer mouth-they'll respect that and be more than willing to teach ya everything they know )

Check out similar motors in the scrapyard while yer there and familiarize yourself with the way they look inside-it's rarely like the pic in Chilton's says..

Half of being a good wrench is common sense-the other half is having seen it somewheres before.

There ain't no trick to it as much as Jesse James would have you believe-that's why he's rich. Only real gearheads already know that.

The common sense part is-"OK, it looks like it should go in THIS way 'cauz I already know it either fits one way usually" Then it most likely DOES go that way.

Motors make sense and unlike women-if ya treat 'em right, when ya fix 'em-they usually STAY fixed

Just remember when it comes to things like paired items-any paired engine parts. Like those neato lil' metering rods in Rochester Q-jet carbs- They're just like drinks and tits....One ain't enuf and three's too many



Yer gonna do what ya wanna, but I figured I'd tell ya what I would do-after all...you asked me

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Deep Blue ]

[Axle]

Well, got my job back today, i'm going to clean out the car tommorow (gotta buncha junk in it) and move it to a working area. its hella cold outside so the wrench feels like... well... lets just say busted knuckles hurt alot worse in the cold (but i'm sure you knew that). Sometime this weekend, i plan on visiting my granpa and checking on a few things (he's got many an engine though they be 75% ford, not to mention the 15 ford 9 inch and 9.5 inch rear ends, i only know theres fifteen cuz i had to move them all one day) , it'd be nice if he had some heads i could snatch, :-D, not to mention a carb er two... i'll post back here in a few weeks when i've found a cheap set a heads and an intake and a carb (wimpy single 2 barrel on it right now). tommorow i think i'm going to consult my uncle on the removal of all this emissions shit. i hate it, i can barely see my engine... would you know of what i can remove (i know... belt re routing should be a fun process). i think thats all the questions i've got tonight, i'll be talking to the gearheads at school alot tommorow.

[CADster]

FUCK ALL THAT !!!!

buy fordged pistons and JUICE IT !!!!!!!!!!!

[CADster]

@DB

i can agree with lots of what you said .. all but this - Small block motors are perfect for racing. Ya know part of the reason those ricey rockets are so damn fast from the get-go? It has absolutely nothing to do with weight, balance or horsepower.

It's revs....LOTsa revs.



well, i agree with some of that too , i just dont agree with the weight comment.

power to weight ratio is king.

my prelude will eat this boat up and the reason (other then a close ration tranny) is its power to weight. i will move less pounds per horsepower and i will win.

my trucks 351 small block will redline with my lude (6800) and it will have about 200 more H.P. , but their is no way my truck will out accelerate the lude, its just too damn heavy .... but i must confess they aint raced... yet.

I personally think building this car is a total waste of time. its too damn heavy to be quick and too damn big and boxy to be safe at high speed. This thing is for cruising to church and going to bingo... plain and simple.

[ October 31, 2002: Message edited by: CADster ]

[Boose]

I personally think building this car is a total waste of time. its too damn heavy to be quick and too damn big and boxy to be safe at high speed. This thing is for cruising to church and going to bingo... plain and simple.

Exacly! But you wouldn't expect that tank smoke you on the line, would you? (well, if not smoke, than just go/accelerate really fast) That is the fun! And it's scary!

I luv this thread! Damn itreresting how it'll turn out.

[Axle]

CADster - you're the worst party pooper i've ever met

Deep_Blue - Talking to gearheads at school today, they said go with the 305 HO heads instead. Something about the size of the combustion chambers. But yeah, besides that, all is go for launch, i'm picking up a carb first... then an intake and heads.

Boose - Glad to know you see my point in doing this.

[Powdered Toast MAAAN!!]

[font face="fixedsys" alt="arial" size="40" color="FFFFFF" align="center">FLY FATASS FLY!![/font]</p>

[ October 31, 2002: Message edited by: Powdered Toast MAAAN!! ]

[Deep_Blue]

Yer exactly right Cad, But that's not the point here I don't think.

Dude has a fatass tank and want's to put bigger balls in it.

It's a whole different class of vehicle than the prelude-it's the difference between the Bugga and the Blood Riviera.

He wants to improve what he already has-a car that'll say "You may take me off the line, but Then when I get up a full head of steam I can knock your go-kart alla way into next tuesday and then drive somewheres for a burger."

It's the doorbell/Apple thing again.

There's just something about two and a half tons of tire-smoking tank...It doesn't even have to go that fast-it's just gotta be a badass sled.

Picture yer average ricer sitting at a light revving up his quick lil' kitty-kat motor...

Comes this behemoth up next to him-low to the ground and rumbling...mebbe shaking a bit from the cam overlap.

Now mr. rice knows he can take this big ass car right off the line, but there's always the thought in his mind, "What the hell's in there? Never mid that-What the hell if I can't get out of his way fast enough when he get that thing really movin'?

That might hurt.

A lot."

That's what I like causing with my '46. Any rice rocket can beat it but it's that 'fear factor'.

("No fear, huh? C'mere....I'll give ya somethin' t'be afraid of, buddy...heheh-if'n I catch ya).

The true Carma spirit.

That and it's just damn good fun buildin' a roarin' sled.

Ya drive down the road proud knowin' "I made this".

That's what makes driving fun. (to a gearhead, anyways...)

Axle. Smaller, well-shaped combustion chambers increase the comression ratio utilizing the same stroke length.

Combustion is hotter and more efficient that way-and if ya get those heads and intake polished and ported (bigger holes in 'em and smoother insides aimed in the proper direction-it makes the engine even more efficient. The airflow doesn't have to work to go around corners then-it takes a more direct route and doesn't lose any velocity due to restrictions and turbulence on the way to the combustion chambers. (turbulence due to roughness inside the intake runners or head ports).

What's easier to breathe thru? a straw or a piece of 1 1/2" pipe?

That's the idea.

Once ya get the motor built-then ya take care of the energy-wasting suspension (stiffen it up and set it up so all the power ya can get goes only to the road thru the rear wheels-yes-get rid of the limited-slip rear end-find you a positraction rear).

Then ya stick that hi-stall converter in the trans so ya can pile up the revs before ya cut it loose and ya got quite a flyin' boat.

Not for competing with rice-just for scarin' the hell outta 'em.

[Powdered Toast MAAAN!!]

That's it DB! When I win the lotto I'm gonna have you commissioned to build me a hotrod! hehe... aces!

[Axle]

Deep Blue:

He wants to improve what he already has-a car that'll say "You may take me off the line, but Then when I get up a full head of steam I can knock your go-kart alla way into next tuesday and then drive somewheres for a burger."

It's the doorbell/Apple thing again.

There's just something about two and a half tons of tire-smoking tank...It doesn't even have to go that fast-it's just gotta be a badass sled.

Thank you for explaining what i could not. If I complete this car, it will be the greatest accomplishment of my life. But back to power talk... my grandpa suggests finding a running, good condition 350 block (run a compression test). Then, purchase the new Vortec heads (a pair of em, with all the springs and everything, they go for under 500 for the pair). Then a high flow intake (or juss massage another basic 350 intake). Then find an old 454 or 455 and nab the carb off of it. Get a hotter cam. Hows that sound? He said if i had the cash, an engine rebuild would complete this well. So, to recap...

350 - $???

Vortec Heads - <$500

Rebuild - ~$200 for the 9.35:1 compression, but if i were going to smack a huffer on there than i could get the forged kit for ~300

High flow intake - $???

hotter cam - ~$200

Carb - $???

Help me fill in some of the ??? here. I like estimates.

[Deep_Blue]

OK. 350 blocks are kickin' around all over the place. Get one from somebody who started rebuilding one and for whatever reason cannot complete it.

That way most of the block work is already done and paid for. Check the "Cars and parts" ads in the newspaper or any of the small flyer-type mags that are given out for free at newsstands and some convenience stores.

They're out there.

But whyfor?

Ya already got one sitting in the car...

What makes it a 350 basically is the heads.

But if you must start with a 350 block-the above way is best to find one-stay the hell outta the junkyards for that unless there's no other way to get one.

Most junkyard V8's around here are available for $200-$350. They're not so much in demand. Most people are looking for running 305's to replace theirs with in their '80s fullsize cars.

I'll check around some countrywide chain stores and see what prices are going for for different intakes and carbs, etc. and get back to ya here. Too bad Performance Centers of America (good ole PCA) went outta business. You could build anything with their parts.

[Axle]

Deep Blue:

But whyfor?

Ya already got one sitting in the car...

What makes it a 350 basically is the heads.

Sorry, didn't know what I had...

Ok... so here are a few updated prices and such. Here are a few questions.

1: Going to rebuild engine first, just because it needs it and i can bore it over in the process (not to mention machine shop can check for flaws/scarring and integrity of bottom end). How much do i bore it over? Most around school bore over .30, is that enough? Do i get a rebuild kit for a 350? If so, what compression? This will be a secondary car that i wont need to drive, so how high is too high for compression? I don't mind having to run 91 octane gas all the time if thats what it takes.

2: About VORTEC heads... they have all the necessary stuff (springs, valves, etc...) BUT they are aluminum. What does that mean? I've heard very bad things about overheating aluminum, i don't wanna have to upgrade to a killer cooling system just for heads. But if they'll do me good, under 500 complete heads sounds like a good plan to me.

3: Intake... should i look to the junkyard for an intake that already flows more than mine or massage mine? Or get a new one? Hrm...

4: Carb... can i just nab one off an junker? What are the chances of getting a lemon? What would be the best car to nab one off of.

Once again deep blue, thank you so so so so so much for your help. I'll name my engine after you once this is done.

[Deep_Blue]

Far as boring goes, Just tell yer local machine shop what yer plannin' on doin' with it and they'll know the specs to go by. Have them check it out first for excessive wear/cracks, etc. beforehand. (The block should be stripped by this point).

Far as an intake goes, those same parts ads are usually a goldmine of cheap parts that nobody can use anymore.

If yer planning on putting a big Holley on top and doin' the port/polish thing-I swear by the Edelbrock 'Torker'. But if those are hard to come by, a good stock 350 intake'll do ya.

Stick with the iron heads. Iron is good.

Iron is @#%kin' tough. and ya won't end up with that nasty 'dis-similar metals' problem that plagues so many smaller motors. Aluminum gets softer at a lower temp than iron. It's not overheating it that usually causes the problem (although if severe enuf-it can), it's usually as it's COOLING that the problem occurs. Enuf hot/cold cycles and the head gasket soon becomes useless and coolant or combustion gases leak and then ya got leaky hot spots in those heads and a crap motor. Aluminum heads are good for racing where the motor gets stripped after every run and miked and checked and new gaskets go in every teardown.

If you just want something that ya can put together once-use the iron heads. (You CAN, however use a beefier head gasket).

Carb? Well, Advance sells rebuilt Holleys, but they can run goodly expensive.

Parts ads again, Y'know. Sometimes you can get lucky and catch a deal on a guy who just got divorced and has to get rid of everything, like his motor he's rebuilt for the car that ain't gonna happen anymore- Or the guy who's wife is GONNA divorce him if he doesn't come outta the garage once inna while

Those deals are out there-ya gotta look hard for 'em.

Hell, I remember once back in my racing days having a buddy o' mine keep another guy neither of us was too crazy about busy by talking to him while I went around and 'admired' his dual-4bbl Holley setup with a pair of vise-grips and some stray deep sockets/ Worked real good under my hood

There's more'n one way to get what ya need.

[ November 03, 2002: Message edited by: Deep Blue ]

[Econobrick]

[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: Econobrick ]

[Slayer]

don't use 305 heads, they have smaller combustion chambers, which will up your CR a bit, but they flow like crap, hardly better than the shitty heads they used on the 4.3 6's.... but putting 350 heads on a stock bottom end 305 will not livin' it up either, the bigger chambers on the 350 head will lower the already sick compression ratio more, it will probably make more power but won't take advantage of the heads, if you want a decent small block, here do this.... get any 350, keep the bottom end stock, unless you're juicing it forged pistons/crank are overkill up to 425hp, get the heads cleaned up with a mild port job if money allows, get a good cam but not one so aggressive it won't want to idle with your stock torque converter, if you want a really lopey cam yer gonna need a 2800 stall...get a used edelbrock RPM intake, and a holley or eddy 750 carb and a cheap set of hedman uncoated headers, they'll start to rust after 2 weeks but who cares what they look like... and a pair of flowmasters too.. but still in your car this would be a mid-range power motor, meaning it would pull great after you already going 20mph or so in a 4500lbs car you need more guts to get of the line

this combo should be pretty cheap and run and sound good, you won't be runnin down 'vettes but it won't be slow .....another thing, big blocks ain't tow motors, you don't need to redline evreything to be quick, if you got torque you'll get of the line good and just shift it just past the powerband (in a big block usually about 4800, so say shift a 5200 or so maybe) yeah a stock pontiac 455 probably won't pull much past 5000, but it is piss easy to make power with them, a few simple bolt ons with most and you'll be knocking on 500hp and 500 ft/lbs....you can do this in a 350 sure but it costs $$$.. some rev pretty good too, chryslers 383 BB has a stroke of 3.38 inches which way less than a chebby 350, but they have a big 4 inch+ bore so they can scream pretty good and all had a steel crank and good rods even the 2 barrels, i'm planning on building one (a 383) up for the dodge mirada i bought a while ago

either way, i still say big block all the way! you want torque in that heavy beast...have a look around for a buick 455 at least i'm sure you could find one cheap...you won't need to mess with the heads or the bottom end..here take this formula... big block+decent cam+big carb+ plus manifold and/or headers equals big power! and at a useable RPM! and don't use NAWWWWWWS either it's cheating and not only that you gotta mess around with bottles, and you can't have the added power all the time etc...for the cost of a $500 nitro kit and $550 set of forged slugs you could have built a decent motor that would make about the same power ALL the time!

[CADster]

Axle:

CADster - you're the worst party pooper i've ever met

strange, you have never met me

its your ride, your time and even your money, but ive seen this before. you spend a year or two making this thing and when its actually drivable... your not happy.

you know, not a word has been said about sway bars, shocks, springs or brakes... moving a 4200+ pound car at 130mph is damn hard to stop and even harder to turn. scare factor, yea its got it, but so does a 750 katana going 160mph in the rain. Fine line between scared and crazy.

this may not be the case with you, you may really like this car enough to put all this hard work (and belive me, its going to be hard) into it and keep it well after completion ... we will see.

best of luck dude.

[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: CADster ]

[Slayer]

well anyone who tries to take a sharp turn at 100mph like it was a porsche in an olds is fucking stupid anyway .... it's not as if after a big block swap this car would be unsafe though, it would just take alot more work to make it's handling and braking performance as good as it's straight line peformance....either way the stock brakes in good shape are MORE than adequate(sp?) to stop this car, and if he wants to make a G-machine out of it it can be done as well, i've seen a '72 chrysler newport that's as good on a skidpad as a corvette...as it is, stock, it'll be fine.... more so with some gas shocks and higher spring-rate front springs but these cars are designed to haul 5 people and 4000lbs of steel over pot holes and the like i'm sure it can handle the extra 140lbs of motor over the front wheels....

check your wallet. if it's flat you've probably got a fast small-block

[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: Slayer ]

[Axle]

if i wanted to take turns, i'd sell out and by a prelude like CADster

[CADster]

Axle:

if i wanted to take turns, i'd sell out and by a prelude like CADster

HEHE... how am i a sell-out when im building one of the baddest 4x4 around ...... besides, the lude is only an A to B car ...

[Deep_Blue]

Yea, mind you, Cad- I did make mention of suspension work but I didn't go into detail at the time.

Slayer, ya got a point, too. That option is workable (350).

Axle, dude, it just goes to show ya-when it's YOUR car-EVERYBODY'S an expert on what ya oughtta do to it.

'Cos they don't hafta pay for it or do the actual work.

Ya got a whole pageful of options here-and they ain't gonna matter shit 'cuz yer gonna do what ya can afford to do and however much work ya feel like doin' anyways-but ya sure got enuf ideas

Think of something else, too before ya blow a lotta bread and sweat on that beastie-

Ya might take 'er out on it's maiden voyage and whomp on it and then wouldn't that be a fine-ass time to find out that the unibody part of the frame was all rotted out inside and now ya gotta jack it up in the middle to close the doors.....

Figure out alla what ya got and see what ya can do with it-ya gotta weigh what it is with what ya wanna do and then compare that to what ya can afford.

Good luck, dude

[Axle]

hmmm... i think i'm just going to sell the car... this idea was very interesting but i'm not determined enough to drop a chunk-o-change into this one. oh well, time to buy stereo parts instead

Thanks for all your help Deep Blue