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Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications
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C2_Scientist created Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications on Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:43 pm
About command recording. (are they called macros? I'm not sure) Well, there are some things, that I have to do many times in Windows: click, move, click, type, click, etc. Is there a program, with which I could "record" my keyboard and mouse commands, and then save them, and finally play them? Would save some time a lot.

And this for Cesm: I hope you're still making those modifications. Could you make a quick importer for noncars, because I have to import many lamp posts and trees and such later, and its boring to have to use those menu commands every time. I still remember when I made levels for Duke Nukem 3D: I saved an object to memory, and then hit the "s"-key, and the object was easily inserted into level. Fast and nice. Well, that "macro" (?) thing might be one solution for this, I guess. If you could make this, I would appreciate it a lot! (Imagine making a yard full of tires, let's say 140 tires, and having to use those menu commands every time, while the option could be just hitting one key...) There could be a list-making option too: A list pops up, and I could choose a new object for importing, after that I just hit that key to insert stuff.

Reply and tell me, if you have something in your mind!
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C2_Scientist on Sat Jul 06, 2002 9:00 am
I found the macro-program myself, I'll just have to test it now. If it works, it'll speed up my tasks.

BTW, does anyone know, why the shortcuts don't always work in PT2? Example: ALT + T translates objects. The shortcut works first, but after a while it doesn't do anything! That's really weird! Maybe there are still some bugs in PT2? (Or in my computer...)
Civel on Sat Jul 06, 2002 9:41 am
well i hope for you it works

if you have brops with p2 then do iit with carED
PumaY2K on Sun Jul 07, 2002 3:46 am
Civel: CarEd just lets you model and texture anything. PlayThing 2 is used to make advanced texturing and to setup tracks. CarEd cant do that
Civel on Sun Jul 07, 2002 9:03 am
ooh see i am still a newbie


Lumberjack on Sun Jul 07, 2002 9:14 am
So it seems [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]. I suggest you just stick around and read stuff... never assume knowledge, knowledge is generally aquired by practice. You seem like a nice newbie, so there's some advice for you!
Civel on Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:51 am
lol thank you for the advise

cesm20 on Sun Jul 07, 2002 11:37 am
don't worry c2 cientist, i am almost releasing a visual basic program to help very much with that thing of importing noncars ... tomorrow or after tomorrow i will post a more complete reply here, so wait a little more...

about the modifications of course i am still doing it, even now i have gta3 i still like c2 very much ! bye
User avatar
C2_Scientist on Mon Jul 08, 2002 2:00 pm
Thanks Cesm. Well, CTRL+I makes it a bit faster.

I have done some "researching", and here are some things that turned out:

- Renaming is only necessary, when you want to have different textures on same kind of noncars. (Different textures for speed limits) And maybe for powerups, but I haven't tested that yet.

- Modify geometry only modifies the appearance, it doesn't affect to physics. (Like bounding shapes)

- To translate objects correctly, use "translate object", or translate with mouse.

- To rotate correctly, use mouse rotating. It'll be easier, if you change the rotation method to rolling ball. And set those dimension on the left in toolbar. (As Econo once wrote)

And I made a trafficlight with animated textures, and it worked well. Of course drones don't know anything about them, I made them anyway, so the players can obey the laws! (What?)
cesm20 on Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:01 am
C2 scientist : now, as promised here is the full post reply i promised yesterday :

Forgive me, c2 scientist if i didn't replyed before yesterday, but you may don't know but i DO NOT have a permanent internet

access, i only have a 56k modem connection, so it's rare to me to go to internet, sorry !

So finally someone talked about the macros ! In the beginning it's a bit hard to understand how they work, but you have to

read the manuals of the programs. But wait, don't get used to the wrong programs !! My modification use MACRO EXPRESS 3.0d

and Automate Pro 4.5n (not the new automate 5.0, i don't liked that new automate to make macros for plaything2) so it's better

you have those two programs, anyway they are the best macro programs, at least they are the more adapted for plaything2.

At the moment just try to get used to those macro programs, DON'T try to make macros for plaything2, because i almost finished

my own macros for plaything2, and when i release my macros and the people that will import it to the macro programs WILL over-

write the already existing macros in the programs ! So only make macros to get experience, while i finish the visual basic

program, that is called PLAYTHING2 AUXILIARY PROGRAM, and believe me, you and all c2 fans will be VERY surprised with the

new function of this program and the things that the macros made !!

About recording macros, you don't have to learn that to use plaything2, but if you want to complicate... that not my problem!!

Yes of course i am making the modifications, but not in plaything2 itself (just a few adjustments) now i am working in the

auxiliary program which takes a lot of work.

Yes, don't worry because i already thinked about that thing of importing noncars, in the visual basic program you just have

to select a name of a non car inside a dialog box, and the macros will import it inside plaything2, whithout even plaything2

asking the name of actor and model name !

Hey, i think you don't know but if you want to put several identical noncars, plaything2 ALSO keeps them in memory when you

import it at the first time ! Don't you know you can use the menu option MAKE NEW OBJECT (with my pt2 modification) and then

select the model of the imported noncar ? And of course giving it the same name that the noncar have. Don't tell me you import

the same noncar several times into plaything2 ?!?! That's a mistake, you can just create a new object with the model of the

noncar and with the same name !!

But even like that it's boring to put 140 tyres in a track, but don't worry i will also made a macro named "use array to put

several objects", but the problem is that after that you will have to move each copy to the place you want, but that you can't

avoid to do, even if it was the best program in the world !!

I hope you are using the pt2 modification build2 in BANDIT's site, are you using that ? If you are not using, the macros will

not work when i release them.

Hum... so you used the program BUILD of Duke Nukem... yes, i also have used it, and i liked very much that way to make levels,

i will try put copy some of it's functions in plaything2 using macros.

If the combination ALT+T doesn't always work, first make sure the mouse cursor is inside the 4 windos of plaything2. If other

thing is focused in other part of the plaything2 window, like a object in the OVERVIEW tab, all the functions with objects

like ALT+T and many others just don't work. Just move the mouse cursor inside the view windows and the key will always work.

Oh and c2 scientist, don't worry because i am making EXTENSIVE tuturials for plaything2 (of course, to use with the modified

version, build2) they will be huge, but they will cover ALL aspects and functions of plaything2, even how to make a completly

new track from scratch in plaything2. Just wait some few weeks and all will be done ! But i recommend you to getting used to

the keyboard shortcouts in plaything2 build2, you will have to memorize them all, if you want to make tracks quickly !!

about your researching, yes, you are right, but when i release the tuturials i expain new things to you, ok ? But you also have very good ideias, i also thinked about that thing of trafic lights chnaging ! Very good ideia !

Thank you very much for you interest in making tracks for c2, i really thank you very much about that, because i am a c2

fanatic !

Lumberjack on Tue Jul 09, 2002 6:20 pm
Cool! So would you recommend we get these programs now? B/c I'm using your build2 without the macro programs, just so I can see what new functions will be implemented, really... if I got the macro programs, would I be able to use the new functions? Like funks and grooves, for example.
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C2_Scientist on Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:40 pm
Thanks, Cesm. About that object importing: I knew there is that command, but the problem with that is, that if I insert a sign with it, and change its textures, the other textures in the same kinds of signs will change too. That's because the objects have to be renamed outside the track's hierarchy. (when not dragged yet under the track)If I use that "make new object from existing model", the object will appear instantly to track's hierarchy, and then it's too late to rename it. Of course I could use it with trees (I don't have to change their textures), but it's still a bit slower than just hitting CTRL+I and double-clicking the ACT-file.

About importing the tires: A fast way is to import one tire, then another and raise it, then the third and raise it more. When the whole pile is completed, just select them all and move the whole bunch somewhere. Then start a new pile. I tried once of making a tire pile, and when I had imported one, I moved it instantly to somewhere else, instead of doing like in that previous example. (A pile first) It was a bit slower...

But hey, that Plaything tutorial really sounds nice! Thanks.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: C2 Scientist ]
cesm20 on Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:34 pm
to lumberjack : yes, you have to downloaded that programs (the link of macro express is WWW.MACROS.COM and the link of Automate pro is www.unisyn.com Oh and by the way try to get cracks for those programs !), but DON'T download any other version of those programs, have to be the exact versions i say in the post, even if it exists updates for that programs !!! Understood ?

No, without the macro files i have made, you still can't use the new functions of pt2, i have telled to download the programs to get used to macros, and HOW they work, ok ? Understood ? Do you have notice the option to generate makes inside the PREPROCESS track in the build2 ? when you click the button OPTIONS about the map generation, it doesn't crash ? In build3 that is fixed ! Yes !!!

Oh, one more thing do you REALLY want c1 support in this modification ? Because i still don't know if i am going to include it or not, because i am afraid you and other c1 fans quit making c2 stuff just to make c1 stuff, you and deepblue of course. How can you prefer to edit c1 if c2 is almost the same thing and even have more possibilities ?

About the funks and grooves, even the macro programs will not permit to activate that functions with my vb6 program, because i am making new dialog boxes in a visual basic 6 program and with the help of macros it will export the settings of funks and grooves into the clipboard and then you just paste the settings inside a track .txt file in the place of funks or grooves, it will only work on that way ! Cool, isn't it ?

to c2 scientist : unfortunally, if you have to insert a sign with a different texture, you have to make a whole new noncar (and with a different number), even if it is the same model, only in that way it won't change the other signs.

One more new about the plaything2 tuturial : it will not be anymore a help file, it will be a html help file (and of course can be read offline). It will have tuturials for EVERYTHING in c2 EXCEPT about making cars. Making cars it's the ONLY thing i don't have yet tryed to make in c2, i am much more interested in making tracks than making cars.

Lumberjack on Sun Jul 14, 2002 11:23 am
Right! I shall get those macro programs now... and yes, I would like C1 support, that would make things much easier... and no, it wouldn't stop me (or DB I'm sure) from making C2 cars, it'd just mean that we'll be able to make our cars for both games much more easily! So, when are you likely to be able to release the Visual Basic addons?
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C2_Scientist on Sun Jul 14, 2002 1:10 pm
But Cesm, I've tried to put different textures to the same sign model, and it did work! As I said, you have to rename them (put 0001, or more, to the end of the name) right after importing, and after that drag to it to track's hierarchy! Or do you mean that it doesn't work anymore after preprocessing of track? (Or something like that)

Hey, does anyone how to de-select vertices? Because it's a good thing that vertices can be moved still in PT2, but the problem is that it's difficult to select accurately them (For example, when dealing with stuff which has more stuff above it!), and usually it'll select too much!

[ July 14, 2002: Message edited by: C2 Scientist ]
cesm20 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 9:27 pm
to lumberjack and c2 scient : one more time i have to reply in other day, as only now i have read your replys, in the last reply i have wroted it online, and because that i have maded many mystakes, i next time i will write the reply offline (with more time to think what i will say) and then i reply you both. Maybe in the next week i reply, i don't know when i can again come to the internet, as i doesn't have internet at home. bye !!

Oh by the way anyone here knows already how to avoid plaything2 crash when we try to rotate objects in fixed view windows (like top view, right view, etc) ? I have discovered a way to avoid that crash and permitting to rotate objects on those windows !!

one note : build3 of plaything2 will be much more better than build2, it will even have some screenshots of carma2 inside the game, in some dialog boxes !
cesm20 on Sun Jul 21, 2002 4:15 am
First of all, let me do a correction about the reply i have posted in the day 13 of july, i have maded a critical mistake

there, all because i have wrote that online and i didn't have time to correct the errors. When i said to lumberjack that :

"About the funks and grooves, even the macro programs will not permit to activate that functions with my vb6 program,

because i am making new dialog boxes "

Of course i maded a mistake there, in reality i would say the following :

"About the funks and grooves, even the macro programs will not permit to activate that functions WITHOUT my vb6 program,

because i am making new dialog boxes "

But i think you already understood the mistake i have made, or not ?

Now, about the two last replys to me :

to lumberjack : yes, go get those programs (if you can't get serial numbers to register those programs, go to the site http://www.gulli.com/oscar.shtml and even you can't understand german, it's easy to figure out which downloads are, and don't

forget to doanload also all the mini-updates in the page for the serials program. I recommend downloading the program

Serials2000), well, right now you should already have those programs, so, what do you think ? Can you learn to work with

them, even without the macros i have maded for pt2 at the moment ? right now just try to learn to make macros (not recorded

macros, i don't recommend to use "recorded" macros on plaything2, when i release my macros you will see that NONE of them

are recorded) and SPECIALLY learn the conditions to make the macros work correctly, one of the rules is don't move the mouse

when a macro is running, specially if the macro is simulating a mouse move, this is very important when you will use macros

inside plaything2. Oh and one more important thing : try to discover the options to import macros, you will need to know to make that when i

release my macros, read the manuals of each program for more details.

Hey, tell me which desktop resolutions do you think it's better for plaything2 ? Other than 1024x768, of course, that is the

one i use. I have preprared the macros also for 800x600, but below than that, the macros don't work, so don't count on using

the macros in plaything2 in 640x480, that's too little.

But please tell me do you think it's worth i prepare the macros to work also on 1152x864 and 1280x960 ? Anyone here use

plaything2 on those resolutions also ? I need to know that BEFORE i release the macros !

Well, i really am surprised you still want C1 support in plaything2, but if it is only to make cars for C1 it's ok ! But all

the times i said you to quit c1 editing it's becase i thinked you would make tracks for carma1, i can't imagine you would write

in a .txt track file the coordinates for each one of the 1000 pedestrians of each track or for all the powerups !!! I will not

put macros to simplify that thing, because even with macros it's very long and boring to do that (specially because in c2 for

pedestrians we just have to write very few lines ! My god, that was the main reason i didn't support carma1 editing, because i

have thinked you would want support to make tracks in carma1, but if you only want to make cars for c1 it's OK i will think

about that, but i will left that for the end, when the carma2 editing support is completed (specially on tracks, objects, drones,

etc), and don't forget the only thing i don't know to do in Carma2 is cars, so don't expect too soon support for making carma1

cars, but i will do, don't worry !

But please tell me, it's really only cars you want in c1 support right ? I can't believe you also want carma1 tracks support,

because you would have to write the coordinates for each one of the 1000 pedestrians and for each powerup, it's as boring

as making opponent paths !! Even if i have macros to help making opponent paths (which i will make also), i don't recommend using

the same method to put pedestrians in carma1 tracks ! It would take forever !!!

So don't worry, but you have to tell me what kind of things i would put in plaything2 to help making cars for carma1, isn't

the same as doing cars for carma2 ? Please make me suggestions, i really don't know how to put c1 cars support in plaything2,

you will have to do suggestions to me, because i don't even know to make a c2 car !!

Oh please don't get tired to wait the conclusion of my modifications, they still will take some time to be finished, even

1 or 2 months, but don't worry if one day i would quit making those modifications (at the moment i don't have any reasons

to quit this modifications, and i am still working at them with excelent motivation) i will say here in CWA board, ok ?

to c2 scientist : sorry if i mistaked you about that thing of not working to change textures on a model without changing

others, as i said i was online when i wroted that post so there are several mistakes there, specially because here time is

money, and a 56k model connection isn't cheap, so please forgive me if sometimes i take too much time to reply, because i

wrote the post off-line in a .txt file and then i past them online.

About the vertices deselecting, i have tryed to deselect vertices and it wasn't so dificult as you said. Are you talking about

the 3D view or the other fixed views ?

You can try to experiment the option SELECTION TOLERANCY in the menu option MODES (or pressing Shift+D, and don't worry

this won't require the macro programs, but this options is only available on my pt2 modification build2 or build1) and

fiddle with that if it does any effect, because i really don't know what that thing is, try to discover what that is for,

maybe it doesn't do anything, but try and later tell me where if that thing does any effect or not, but i may have some-

thing to do with selecting things, maybe even vertices.

There is also other option you can use, is EXPLODE OBJECT VIEW in the menu option VIEW in the last option (or pressing

Ctrl+E, which also don't require macro programs) this is to move objects of the view without modifiyng it's real position,

you never worked with this ? With this you can move objects that are on top of others and it will be much more easier to

selected vertices of one object without selecting things of other objects

My god ! I am really amazed because of your track making tuturial ... it's the BEST tuturial i have already seen ! For the

first time, i saw things there i never could figure out that they are for (specially the %age thing in the drone .txt file,

i would never guess that thing was the center of mass !), and i am amazed you could make so good excelent pictures to exemplify

some things, like the special effects box (it was too difficult to me to make that kind of examples if i would do a tuturial

about that).

But i see that there is many things there you didn't explain, or because you don't know or because it's too complicated.

I am also doing tuturials about everything in Carma2, but they are really very detailed (specially because the new features

in the plaything2 modification), so they are much more bigger than your tuturials, so it would be good if i could also

include some things of your tuturials in my tuturials, because i don't know if i can make such good example pictures like

those named path 1.jpg, box.jpg or checkpoint.jpg, so i would to ask permission to you if you can copy some things from your

tuturials. Of course your name will be there with full credit, i would not "steal" anything and never say that only me have

done that, it's just to combine the best things of my tuturials (that have much more details on text) and your tuturials

(which have excellent pictures to better explain the text), because you didn't noticed but you have used screenshots from

my pt2 modification and the tuturial explains how to make things in the old plaything2 from stainless (i saw that from the

keyboard shortcouts you wrote there), and some times there are things in your tuturials that with my modifications have

easier ways to do.

Then when i finish the tuturials, before releasing them i would show them to you, to see if you would agree with the things

i have copyed or even if you could help to make my texts become easier to understand. So what you say ? If we could work

together in tuturials like this, the best things of your tuturials could even join with my extensive tuturials, i am sure you

would like if your tuturials shows up each time a person press F1 key in my plaything2 modification ! (unfortunally it will not

be anymore a help file, but a html file just like your tuturials)

And this is specially because i never maded carma2 cars so i can't make a car making tuturial, so you car making tuturial would

only changed to indicate the new functions of plaything2 modification to show easier ways to do things. Do you understood ?

I hope so.

Oh and don't forget to also get those macro programs, for you to be prepared also when i release the macro files, please read

all the things i said to lumberjack in this posts to understood better why you need to get used to macro programs, this, of

course, if you want to fully use the plaything2 modification. Ok ?

Bye !!
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C2_Scientist on Tue Jul 23, 2002 1:31 pm
Sorry, that I didn't reply earlier, there were some problems two days ago.

I'm glad you liked my tutorial, and yes, you can use some stuff of my tutorials in your tutorials. No problem. Well, the shortcut keys and screenshots were from your modifications, so I think they should work. (I guess I should have mentioned it, so that the map makers know that they should download your modifications first)

About those macros and resolutions: I tried making macros with a program called "EZ Macros", and usually mouse actions were quite slow, and they didn't work always. Instead, I used keyboard shortcuts: ALT + F to open file menu, then cursor keys to select the commands, and then write some names with keyboard, enter, etc etc. And that was really fast, especially when I put the speed of playback to max!

An example of importing a "02Lamp"-object, and renaming it:

ALT + F (Opens file-menu)

3x cursor down (To select the 4th command)

Enter (Activates that command)

02Lamp (Name of the ACT-file)

Enter (Opens that ACT-file)

ALT + O (Opens the object-menu)

1x Cursor up (Selects the last command, which is a menu)

1x Cursor right (Opens the sub-menu, and selects the first command)

Enter (Activates the first command)

2x Tab (Selects the text field)

02Lamp0002 (The new name of the object)

Enter (Accepts the new name of the object)

That way you don't have to worry about the screen resolutions! Personally, I found that pretty handy, but I guess you have already tried that...

About those opponent paths: are you planning anything to make it faster to define them with PT2? Some kind of special points in PT2, or...? (I'm no programmer, I don't know what the possibilities are)

And there's a lighting-option in material editor-window, but doesn't seem to do anything. When I'm trying to get some texture to be fully lit with no shading, I try to put those sliders to max, but they simply don't have any effect in the game! Do I have to use some special option somewhere?

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: C2 Scientist ]

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: C2 Scientist ]
cesm20 on Mon Jul 29, 2002 11:26 pm
Hey, C2 Scientist, i think it's better we talk by email, because i still have so much things to discuss with you that i would

like very much to talk, and here in the CWA board isn't really the righ place to post big mensages, it's better we write emails

to each other, right ?

So, my email is cesm@hotmail.com AND cesm19@mail.pt

Anytime you sent to me a email please send to both emails because many times i don't receive emails even when people send it,

so it's better you sent the same email to two different emails.

I really want to be a "c2 scientist" too, i refuse to let C2 die just because of GTA3 and TDR2000, c2 will not die even if it

is getting older.

Please always reply me, because i am really very tiring of thousands of people quit emailing me without any reason and even

if i reply one thousand times asking why they quitted emailing me, they ignore me forever, i hope you also don't do that, because

DEEPBLUE did that to me, in the past i excanged emails with him, but at a certain time, without any explanation it quitted

replying me forever, even if i sent to him almost 5 or 10 emails asking why he didn't reply anymore and he seems DEAD, because

never more replyed... And that's not the only case, all the friend i haved by email ALL done the same thing to me, SPECIALLY

girls. So i hope you don't quit emailing me without at least telling me why !!

And other thing if you write emails and cwa posts ONLINE please don't, i don't know you case, but in my case, i can't write

emails and post online because i only have a shitty 56k modem phone connection and i have to pay 1 euro in day time, and a half

euro during the night, it doesn't seem to be much, but i don't like to go to the internet just to write emails and posts, so

in the end of month most times i have a 25 euros bill to pay and that's why i hate modem connections, you may not even believe

but in my city not even NET CABLE nor ADSL are disponible yet, can you believe that ?! The only kind of internet available

here is the normal 56k modem connection to phone line or RDIS line which is even more expensive.

So, everytime i write emails and post online i write everything as fastest as i can, and i couldn't think right which things

i would say better, so i write all emails and posts OFFLINE so they are more weel constructed and thinked.

And you, i presume you write also online, because somethings i ask in the post you don't answer, i presume you also have very

litle time to write posts online, if that is the case, now that we can email each other, PLEASE i know it can be boring if i

am a little demanding on questions, but common, you can't understand how i fell when people ignore my questions, i know that

may be bothering to answer all them, but common, they aren't so many as that !!!

Ok ? So please reply the email i will sent to you, in the next days. (i will not yet sent it today, it's not ready yet) And

try to answer my question, you too can make all questions you want i really don't mind, and i ALWAYS reply to evertyhing people

say or ask to me !!

Ok ? So wait for my email and then please reply. Bye !!
User avatar
Deep_Blue on Tue Jul 30, 2002 12:35 am
Heya, Cesm.. I'm not ignoring you, man! I've tried to email you at the address I always replied to. Trouble is, after I get 40 or failure delivery returns at your address I tend to stop trying. I even posted my reply to your email asking me why I stopped responding to your emails on this board.

Go back in the rant forum aways, look for "For Cesm..."

I understand by your above posts that you can't always log onto the net. Maybe that's why your mailbox is always too full for my emails?! You must find, like 50,000 spam messages in your mailbox when you finally can log on...Ya gotta clear them as many email servers only can hold so much space for you. (you already knew that [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

It's not for my lack of trying to stay in contact- your email address (cesm19@mail.pt)

keeps spitting my replies to you back at me!

I have your other address now-I will contact you there in a few minutes and see if it works.

Like I said in the "For Cesm" post, I got no problem whatsoever with you, buddy. Ya just got a ghost in the machine that doesn't like me [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ July 29, 2002: Message edited by: Deep_Blue ]
***When I die may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline***
User avatar
C2_Scientist on Tue Jul 30, 2002 7:44 pm
Hmm, here in Finland the phone time costs about 0.005 euros / minute, if I remember right... I usually go to Internet every two days, sometimes there are exceptions.

I'll try to answer your questions, sometimes I guess I don't notice them all, or forget them when I'm writing the reply. Let's see now... ok, send the E-Mail, but the other people here at CWA can't read them, if they wanted to get some knowledge.

C2 won't die because of some TDR2000, although it had some good ideas, they weren't enough! GTA3 is more a challenge. But when we compare C2 to those two games, we shouldn't forget that C2 is a '98 game. A sequel for C2 (a REAL sequel) would be the king of all games!

By the way, do you know the answers for my two questions, that lighting stuff and easy opponent path defining?
cesm20 on Fri Aug 02, 2002 12:33 pm
to deepblue : what ?!?!?! it's impossible ! i am receiving emails at cesm19@mail.pt from other people and they come fine !! Maybe

you didn't try again in the last days, now that email receives emails, even emails with 4 megabytes it receives !!

Sorry if i accused you, but i couldn't guess what happened, ok ? sorry !!!

And by the way, yes the other email worked, i received you email at cesm@hotmail.com ! From now on always email me there !

Later i will reply it, don't worry.

And sorry again, i never saw that post you posted, but of course i believe you, but unfortunally i haven't noticed it, but now it's ok, you

talked to me here !

So tell me, do you have tried my plaything2 modification build2 ? do you know where to download it ? it's because i NEED sugestions,

and i can even put carma1 support, but ONLY for c1 cars, not for c1 tracks. Tell me, you did like very much c1 editing, but it's

only to make c1 cars, rigth ? You don't quit making stuff for c2 just because you are making stuff for c1, right ? That is my fear,

that's the reason i don't like much to put c1 support in plaything2, i fear that pleople only focus on c1 and forget c2.

Because my main goal is to incitivate people to make SINGLE PLAYER tracks of excelent quality for c2, that's the main reason i decided

to improve plaything2, but don't count on me to put c1 tracks support, only c1 cars support. So tell me, which kind of things of c1

support you would like in plaything2 ?

to c2 scientist : ok, i will continue to reply here, but please DON'T limit the length of your post just because it's a post,

write the same length if you was writing on email, ok ? So in the next days i will post here a more complete reply, ok ? Bye!!
User avatar
Deep_Blue on Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:00 pm
OK,buddy [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I don't think you have to worry much about C1 overshadowing C2 as many people don't even own C1 anymore. I just make stuff for C1 to try to breathe some life back into the game that started it all.

I'm always making C2 cars and still attempting C2 tracks when I have the time (which is not often).

I have not been able to piece together all of the components for your modified PT2 yet.

The original programs and "modifications" you sent me did not work and I never got to see the new and improved program in action.

Now I'm waiting to upgrade my computer so I will have more hard drive space to store my projects and then I will find the programs again and continue. Nice to hear from ya, dude [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
***When I die may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline***
cesm20 on Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:11 pm
my god, deepblue, very fast reply !!! oh, i have forgot, you are a moderator, right ? so please can you reply my last post ? that one about the build3 i made right now in the main cwaboard

cesm20 on Thu Aug 08, 2002 10:18 am
to c2 scientist only :

well even if you can't do c2 editing because your computer isn't working correctly, at least i would post the reply here, anyways.

as promise here's the reply, also about that post which you talked about the lighting options in plaything2 (which you posted

on 23rd july):

i really don't mind about you taking some days to reply, because i the most cases even to see the replys here i also take somedays

because most times i can only go to the net one time per week or even per two weeks !

Ohhh i am really surprised you let me copy stuff from your tuturials, i would afraid you didn't want, because that thing of

copyrights, but don't worry i will not "steal" things from your tuturials and say that that's only my work, of course not, i

will include your name, after all, you almost know as much as i do, if not more... (because you know how to make cars, i do not)

Oh no, do you have tried EZ MACROS ? No wonder why the mouse macros didn't work. Well me too i already have tryed that macro program

to help me things in plaything2, but later i quitted that program, because it doesn't have some functions that Automate pro 4 and

Macro Express 3.0e have, and Macro Express has the great ability to check if the mouse concluded the moves in the right places,

it waits for the action that the mouse mouse do and only then it passes to the next macro program, but in Ez macros i think that

is impossible. You can't compare Ez macros to Macro express and automate 4 pro. These two last programs are the best macro programs,

at least i only make macros for them, so if you continue using Ez macros later you can't import to it the macros i have made

for Automate 4 pro and Macro Express 3.0e, it's just because that i don't recommend you to use other programs.

Do you already tried the two macro programs i said ? DO you have any problem with them ? Do you have serials do register them ?

Don't forget that now the Macro Express has updated to version 3.0e and the serial number for 3.0d fortunally works on it.

Hum... good job about importing that noncar, but i imagine you don't want to make a macro for each type of noncar you want to

import... and if this is the best way for you (which i DON'T recommend) for me is not, but if you don't have my macros yet, it's

normal you try to made for yourself, but don't you think that instead of pressing ALT+F, pressing 3 times the down button,

then ENTER, and then selecting that option in the sub-menu, don't you think it's better in this way :



PRESSING SHIFT+G TO OPEN THE MENU TO RENAME THE OBJECT (why using the menu navigationg ? It's much more slower, specially in a macro)




Don't you think this way is even better ? Why to complicate things ? The keyboard shortcouts in the menu at there to remind

you that they work, and that one to rename the object is NOT BOLD so it doesn't require my macros, after you import a object

and select it you JUST PRESS SHIFT+G to rename the object ? It's so much more easier !

And other thing, everybody is used to import noncars only by the .act file, why don't you import by .sdf file ? Now plaything2

is capable of IMPORTING .sdf projects the same way that it imports .act files ! This is a great function that wasn't accessible

in the original plaything2 version, just press SHIFT+F3 instead of CTRL+I. And if your noncars doesn't have yet .sdf files,

open the noncars in a empty plaything2 (without any track loaded) and save them to produce the .sdf file, because always

we import a noncar by it's .act file it asks for materials and pixelmaps, and in .sdf it imports everything without asking !

Do you already tried ?

About defining opponent paths, it still will be a bit long to make them, but don't forget i have a macro that captures the

coordinates written below OVERVIEW tab into the clipboard, and the macro program processes the text captured there and copy

then to the clipboard, and then you just past the corrdinates in the track .txt file. This way you don't have to manually

copy the numbers of the coordinates every time which is very long. And that's not all, it's possible to make a "dummy" object

in plaything2 to indicate the position of each coordinate inside plaything2, then we just capture the object centers to the

clipboard and there is the best way to define the coordinates of opponent paths, just position that "dummy" object as if it

was one visible node of the opponents paths, and in the final you just deleted the "dummy" object. It's much better than just

pointing to a place in plaything2 and writing all coordinates ! You may not understand this yet, but when i make the tuturial

you will understand better.

Oh and other thing, remenber those models that plaything2 always shows when you first start it ? Like SPHERE_48, BOX01, LIGHT BOX

and AXIS ? What you think if i REPLACED one of those objects by a copy of the eagle3 3d model and then using that model inside

plaything2 to define the player start position ? You just position that object in the place on the track you want to start

in the game, and then a macro then would save the eagle3 coordinates center to the clipboard, and just paste in the track .txt

file the player start position ! In build3 (which i will release on bandit's site) this eagle3 model is shown in plaything2

instead of one of those four models (i deleted AXIS and replaced it with EAGLE3). And it works, it's so much more confortable to see

the eagle3 model on the track inside plaything2 and defining the player start position just by moving it, and then if you don't

want to start the game and your car crash in the fake eagle3 model, you just move the eagle3 model in the track, to other place

(don't delete it, because then it disappears from the memory and only restarting plaything2 it would appear again) AFTER defining

the player start position of course, because the macro CAN determinate the center coordinates of the eagle3 model (by fixing it's

position with force identify matrix and then saving a temporary noncar .txt file, and then a visual basic 6 program i am mading

extracts the coordinates of the object center in the temporary noncar txt file, very clever, just imagine doing all this without

macros !!). But don't worry i will made a tuturial on this also.

About the lighting options, i already touched them also, but i never tried to see the effects inside the game, but in case

you didn't noticed, there IS a real light in carmageddon2 world, dont you ever saw inside plaything2 a weird red object,

which looks like a lightbox ? And that you couldn't never delete it ? You know what i am talking or not ? Well you can consider

that light as the sun light, and unfortunally i think it's impossible to move that light, but you can move the track, and if

you move it, i think the shades on the whole track would change.

Back to the lighting options in the material tool box, there is a really mistery about that, because if you look in the track

.txt file you would find there :

0.2,0.8 // Ambient/Diffuse light to be used when plaything ambient says 0

1.0,0.8 // Ambient/Diffuse light to be used when plaything ambient says 1

0.3,0.8 // Ambient/Diffuse light to be used when plaything ambient says anything else

Don't you think that those lines refer to those values in the lighting tab in the material tool box ? It makes sense, but i

still can't make that work right, but it's supposed that every materials on the track which you defined 0 in the field "AMBIENT"

on the lighting tab would have the brighteness it says in the first of those 3 lines in the track.txt file. And the materials

you defined 1 would have the brightness in the second line, and every other values in the 3 line. But this doesn't seem to

work exactly in this way because if you change the general brightness of the track in the third line, it also changes the

brightness of the materials with ambient value 0 and 1.

I don't yet how this works exactly, but if you fiddle with that values you actually CAN make the track look like it's in mid-night

time in the track !! It looks great to see the tracks in mid-night track, it gives a completly new feeling about playing the

tracks on carma2 !

Only the powerups, pedestrians, cars, drones and smashables seems to have full bright, and even some materials are full bright

even when the whole track is very dark, that would be perfect to make light posts in the night !!! I am working with that and i

discovered how some materials are full bright even when we change the general brightness of the track !! But i must tell you it

was VERY difficult to discover, later i will tell to you how i made this great discovery !

So just try to fiddle those values in the track .txt file and see which materials get affected by the changes, because one

time i have saw a very weird effect, it looked like half of all the materials on the track haved full bright and other very dark,

so those lighthing options, specially the third line, they really WORK, and i think now that the first value (0.3) is for the

materials with ambient 0 and the second value (0.8) is for the materials with ambient 1, but i am not sure, because i didn't

test this many times. Well you can try and then you tell me something about that, ok ?

Now about your last post :

When i refered to internet cost, i would say that in day time one hour costs 1 euro and in night time, 2 hours costs 1 euro.

In your country, how much it costs by hour day and night ? (if using the phone line and a 56k modem)

As i said i recommend you write the post offline to not forget any answer, because maybe if you are writing online, you will

write faster and forget more things, or you have a permanent internet connection ?

Do you think it's a good ideia to "copy" ideias from tdr2000 and Gta3 to use on c2 ? I plan to copy some things and ideias,

i think that is not wrong, isn't it ? It's a good ideia, or not ?

Oh yes, a true sequel to c2 would be very good, but look, only if it have the same physics engine, but improved, like they

did in c2, don't forget that c2 engine is the c1 engine but supercharged and improved, it's that i would like. But unfortu-

nally Stainless won't ever do a sequel to C2 and i think if they do, using a completly new engine it wouldn't be the same

thing... What you think ? The c2 engine and physics effects are UNIQUE ! Even GTA3 doesn't have such good physics engine as

c2, i saw many objects in GTA3 sinking in the walls, specially the traffic lights, even the doors of the cars when they are

open they pass throught the wall when we drive close to a wall, most of the objects in GTA3 have a terrible bounding box,

almost all the objects pass trought other objects.

Oh, by the way keep checking BANDIT's site because i am sending the build3 to him right now ! (when i posted this reply) His site is : http://pm.polygonized.com/

Ok, that's all.

Bye !!

[ August 08, 2002: Message edited by: cesm20 ]
Small_Block on Thu Aug 08, 2002 10:53 am
Hmm, just to let you know: the lighting effects sliders do work! The most obvious one would be the specular lighting control.

Try it on cars: set all materials to 0.4-0.8 and you'll notice the amount of light shading augment(the contrast B/W the lit and shaded zones will be higher).
User avatar
C2_Scientist on Thu Aug 08, 2002 1:28 pm
Phew! Now let me take a couple of days to write a reply.
Small_Block on Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:31 pm
Cesm wrote:
i think now that the first value (0.3) is for the

materials with ambient 0 and the second value (0.8) is for the materials with ambient 1, but i am not sure
Actually, I think the first value controls light intensity, while the second is for contrast(maybe gamma...). At least, that's what I think I noticed.

Lumberjack on Sun Aug 11, 2002 1:46 pm
Hmm, it's no wonder people forget to reply to everything, when you write so much! Firstly, if you are using notepad or similar to write your replies... it seems that you are pressing return when you come to the end of a line... it is better if you use View-->Word Wrap, and then you won't need to do this, and your posts here will look neater! Thanks!

Ok... about C1 cars... I thought maybe you would have found some stuff on C1 cars 'buried' in the depths of PT2 (like you've done with other things). What I'm interested in really, is an option for saving a car in C1 format. If you can find the info on making .mat files in there, and the other C1 car files, then basically what I'm after is an option to create a C1 car using the current loaded car. That way, a car could be created for C1 and C2 in one PT2 session! I know it is possible to create a C1 car with the same structure as C2, but I cannot make a .mat file. Note that the .mat file for C1 is not the same as C2's. Anyway, you don't need to worry that we will stop making C2 cars! And yes, I can see the problem with the tracks, but perhaps in the future we will discover a way to get around that.

Oh, I can't find the correct version for Macro Express now... they've moved on to a later one.

It's unfortunate about your internet connection. Here in the UK we have broadband now (although I'm not on it), and unmetered access... I pay a certain amount each month, and then can use the net as much as I like, the calls do not cost anything. Perhaps you have something similar available?

W.r.t. the physics in GTA3, yes, I know what you mean... but then, there are a few things that are far better in GTA3. For example, when it is raining, and you are driving a car, you can really feel that it's raining. The car slides as it would in the rain. C2 doesn't have that (sure, you could probably apply the effects on a custom track, but not so that it would be changing...)

Well, I think I replied to everything that I needed to (hope so, otherwise Cesm will shout at me [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]).
User avatar
C2_Scientist on Sun Aug 11, 2002 5:12 pm
Text generator - switched on

Amount of text - set to 180 %

Target of output - set to CWA board/General board/Command recording...

Settings defined succesfully, ready for generating


Text generating completed, viewing results:

This reply will have some extra stuff which I'd like to discuss of: there's some things I'd like to have in Plaything 2, and you can see if you can (and want) put them in your modification. It's kind like a short wish list.

Note 1: Some of these what I'm talking about are just ideas, don't start to think how to make them, because they could be too complicated to make. I can always tell my ideas, but don't take them all too seriously, please?

Yep, I have used EZ Macros. It was the first good macro program I tried, but I haven't tried many programs yet. Anyway, you're right, of course you can use the keyboard shortcuts to make it faster. My point just was to use keyboard commands, so you wouldn't have to worry about screen resolutions when using mouse movements. (Of course there's some things in Windows you can't activate with keyboard commands)

Importing SDF-files? Well, if it's faster. A made a quick test, but I couldn't notice any difference between them... but I agree that the PT2 sometimes asks for the pixelmaps, even if they are in the tiffrgb-folder!

That opponent path definer sounds good to me. Would be cool if it could automatically detect the surface and then raise up or down if necessary, instead of just being at 0-position in Y-axis. (When using the topdown view, so we wouldn't have to move them ourself) But see note 1.

Yes, I have noticed that lightbox. You can find it in "object -> make new object from existing model -> select". Now about those ambient lights. I agree that the 'anything else' line seems to be the only working, so use that. The ambient value (first number) is the brightness of direct light in surfaces. The other value is the diffuse light, meaning the shady surfaces, so it's the brightness of the shadows. (Funny, eh?) Of course, the direct light's brightness should be higher than the diffuse light's. Think it this way: In real world, the shady walls aren't brighter than the walls, where the direct sunlight hits. I've made some 'midnight' tracks too, and yes, the cars are fully lit. Make sure to remove the depth cueing ('fog') to make the night look better, if you want. (I don't like that dark fog!) If you want some example values, I've got some:

Use 0.6 , 0.3 for day-time tracks

Use 0.2 , 0.1 for midnight tracks (but you can't read any signs well)

Phone-time costs are approximately 0.5 euros/hour in daytime (Before 5 pm), and 0.3 euros/hour in nighttime (After 5 pm). I'm using modem connection too. I got an Internet connection with one computer magazine, and the internet time costs me as much as if I called to my neighbor. (Local call)

About that idea copying: As long as you copy the good ideas, and avoid the bad ones, then go ahead! I made once a wish list for the next Carmageddon's sequel, and I wrote they could re-use the good ideas and avoid the bad ideas. And I wrote it would a bit like 'copying' (not illegal, though), but it just might make the game better. But where are you gonna put those ideas, to Plaything, your tracks, or program them into C2 itself?

There was something in Stainless Games site about 'Shapeshifter', which (I think) was a new physics engine, with visual enchancements too! They said they were gonna use that in their games, or something like that. Well, the current physics engine of C2 really is cool, but if the new one is even better, then I think I don't have anything against it... as long as I can edit the game as much as now. You could check it out in their site, if you want. (www.stainlessgames.com/)

I've played GTA3 only two hours in my cousin's house, so I haven't noticed yet those through-the-car-going-objects, but I have noticed some other thing: I drove with an ambulance very slowly (about 30 mph), and someone rammed it from sides. The result: my ambulance flipped over and 'barrel rolled' THREE times! In C2, it would have just landed on it's side, and stayed like that. But I guess the physics engine of GTA3 is designed for having fun. If you want to try that 'barrel rolling' in C2, open some car's textfile, change the first two numbers in angular momentum proportions into 2, and change the second value in the centre of mass (the Y-value) into 0.3. Now try to get the car rolling sideways in the game. (Drive it yourself, or try to get it as opponent)

Now those 'wishes':

The first one is about texture mapping: when I'm mapping the texture, I can change the number in U and V boxes with those slider buttons. (to make more repetitions for the texture in the wall) But when I try to enter a number with keyboard, it has no effect. Could you get it working somehow? And a button which resets both boxes to 1 would nice too!

Then there is one advanced thing: I have used UnrealEd to make maps for Unreal, and the movement in that editor was fast and better than in Plaything 2. The movement went like this:

- With left mouse button pressed I could move forward and backward (mouse up & down), and turn the view to both sides (mouse left & right)

- With right mouse button I could turn the view up and down (mouse up & down) and both sides. (Mouse left & right)

- And with both buttons pressed I could fly up and down (mouse up & down), and strafe to both sides. (mouse left & right)

I liked it very much, and I'm asking you, if you could include an option to change the movement keys in your modification, and possibly include mouse movement too. It would make things faster, but I don't know if it's possible, because I haven't ever done any programming, I'm just asking. And I'm not sure, if the mouse movement would disturb noncar rotating and translating, since the both would use mouse, then. You have any ideas?

Those two wishes I had in my mind for now, I can think for more if you want. (I'm sure I can come up with some new ideas!) Now I have two other questions, which don't actually have anything to do with your modifications, but when I searched through CWA archives, I found some conversations where you had been able to do special tricks in C2.

1. Deep_Blue wrote that you had made hingable bridges. How did you make those? Did you use "World_hinge_joint"-keyword in noncar's textfile? I tried that once, but I couldn't get it working, C2 just said: "unknown noncar command". But I really don't know the lines which should follow that keyword. (Joint position, lift height, maximum angle?) You tell me, please!

Note: I've tried to make moving objects with grooves, but then the physics won't move with the object. (bounding shapes, at least I haven't been able to make them move yet) For example, a spinning big house would just go through the car, except in it's original starting position. (Where it is in Plaything 2) I guess they had done it so for performance reasons. But grooves can be still used with small objects. (Quite like the same size as the car has, like the moving turrets in the 'Hard core'-mission)

2. And the second one was those weather effects. How do you make those, like rain or snow?

Lots of stuff, I know. Answer them if you want, you can freely choose to answer some of them or all. (All would be better) Thank you.

[ August 11, 2002: Message edited by: C2 Scientist ]
cesm20 on Sun Aug 11, 2002 7:09 pm
finally c2 scientist ! finally you made what i ask asking long time ago ! very good ! now let me copy this to read offline so i can reply you in the next days ! wait for a post right here !

bye !!
Lumberjack on Tue Aug 13, 2002 6:42 pm
Scientist, if no.2 was directed to me... I don't know that it's been done, I was just referring to how you could make the ground seem wet, and stuff like that. However, I think you could use an animated texture to show rain... and make it so you can drive through it (set the BBox high)... you could apply the texture to a block covering the whole track... sound feasible?
cesm20 on Thu Aug 15, 2002 2:12 pm
to lumberjack :

sorry at first i don't even noticed you reply, but i noticed it the right time to reply you also ! Well, my windows system is on Portuguese language so i don't know which option is equal to "VIEW - WORD WRAP", but i found other option that makes the same thing, at least when i come to the end of the line i don't need to hit return to change the line, it's like this ? This mensage was written using that, do you notice any difference ?

Anyway thanks for the advice tip no one ever told me that !

Well i don't know if i will really put c1 cars support, you know even c2 cars i never tried to make, i don't want to waste time on cars, i prefer to learn to build professional single player tracks and the accessories, but if someone ask SIMPLE things about c1 cars support i will do, but until now all the sugestions for c1 car support is impossible to made without the sources of plaything2, don't forget i only have a resource hacker program, not the sources...

You said "found some stuff on C1 cars 'buried' in the depths of PT2" i really don't know what the hell are you talking about but i have saw several hidden dialog boxes in plaything2 (which doesn't work) and i don't remember see anything there related to c1, can you be more specific ?

About the .mat files from c1, unfortunally i can't do anything, because i am not good to decipher files formats, and i must tell you, i will only include c1 car support if it is things that doesn't need much word, because you know my priority is c2 editing, but i won't prejudice c1 car users but i will only put things that are easy to put, not things like decipher file formats, sorry !! But maybe i will make some tuturials to convert pt2 stuff to work on carma1. But anyway you aren't even a bit interested on making c2 tracks ?! You don't want to have much better tracks for c2 at least almost too good like the GTA3 tracks ? Yes i know it would be a lot of work but it's not impossible, specially when i finish the modifications !

Well about Macro Express DON'T download the new version, because it have a very annoying bug (well maybe it's best you try on your computer maybe that bug won't appear), each time the program finishes playhing a macro, it gives a weird error (which just says "*PIL*") and quits the macro and closes the macro express program. And i think the older versions are yet disponible, can't you see there the version 3.0d ? It's that one i am using. But if you download the new one, the macros i will release are compatible, but the weird error may appear to you also !

Well i hope now you understand why i can't be online all the times i want, it's too expensive, and ADSL internet don't even arrived at my city yet !! But it's almost, in my city only exists the normal phone connection and RDIS lines, not even CABLE NET is disponible ! Lololol... here it's IMPOSSIBLE to make the phone calls cost nothing, but yes it exists a service which we pay a amount each month and the phone calls are really really very cheap, but for me it's the same problem because i can't get a job, so i can't pay so much money in one time (at the end of the month). And the phone conection i use is on my father's house (i live with my mother) and many times he complains about the big phone bill at the end of the month, sometimes it's even 40 euros at the end of the month !!!

No, i don't said that Carma2 is better than GTA3, i know that GTA3 as many good things better than Carma2, i think it's best not to compare the games because the big differences between their ages... But Carma2 also have some things better than GTA3.

Hum... about the rain i think i can make rain in Carma2, but only 3d rain, and in certain tracks, and if it exists one track that is always rain isn't that bad...

But GTA3 has many ideas that could apply on c2 track making, and Tdr2000 also have.

Oh, by the way don't forget to read also the reply post i made to C2 scientist (read the rest of this post), specialy on it's ending, in the section of list of ideas i have for track making, you could even don't believe on some ideas and maybe you will say that i am crazy and that thing are impossible to do !!!

now to c2 scientist :

see, it's these kind of posts that i like very much to reply, as soon as i saw the size of your post, i imediatly copyed it to a floppy and as soon as i came home i started wrotting the reply !! And don't worry i even enjoy answering all questions and commenting everything you said ! I won't forget NOTHING !!

You may don't understand why i like this so much, but it's because the internet it's the only place i can talk with friends

about c2 editing, in my city where i live i don't have any friends to share my c2 ideias/projects, so the people here at the CWA board is the best place to share my ideias or helping other people.

Now there is the reply to your post :

Hey, you forget to write "END" of text generating !!! (that's a joke, i say this because in the beginning you said "START

Text generating completed" and you forgot to put "end" in the end of the post !! But i understood the joke! But i must admit

that at the first time i didn't understand that those things at the beginning of the post means ... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]))))

Don't worry, i know enough about c2 editing to see what is possible or impossible in ideas, and i will say which ideas of yours are possible or that i also would like to make.

I don't think that keyboard shortcouts are affected by desktop resolution...

Unfortunally i still have to include support for each resolution.

WHAT ?!?! You must have maded a mistake. Right now, i loaded a noncar with the option IMPORT .ACT FILE and it asked the following :

"please locate the material". Then i closed plaything2, restart, and opened the SAME object with the option IMPORT .SDF FILE and it NEVER asks for anything, something must be wrong with your object... (have you saved it with the .sdf format as you do with a track ?) and i tested this right now about 10 times and the result its always the same, even restarting Plaything2...

But when you use the option IMPORT .ACT FILE sometimes plaything2 ask for the pixelmaps, like you said, but if you open the object at the second time it only asks for the material file. Maybe it's because the tiffrgb aren't already converted to PIX16 ?

Oohhh ... calm down, you don't have understood how my opponent definer works ... well at the time it's not worth to explain it, i will explain in the tutorials, but let me say that really your definition of opponent definer is a dream (specially that thing of it detecting the surface to go up and now !!!) That would be a great idea, but in fact it's not possible.

Hum... thanks to informing me how the ambient light works, i haven't been sure for what i was saying about lights, but as no one has talked about them before you, i would think that nobody would know how they worked. I want to thank SMALL BLOCK which also know that stuff about lights.

Did you also noticed that some textures on the walls of the track are full bright even with midniht time tracks ? Specially in the first track of the game (NICE BEAVER) on the kind of "bridge" of concrete, as soon as we advance some meters and turn left ? (i can't descrive this correctly)

What ?! The local phone calls on your country are half more cheap than in my country !! You are lucky !

About the ideas of other games, specially TDR2000 and GTA3, i can't see well which ones are good or bad, later i will say some to you and you advise me, ok ? Those ideias is to put specially in my tracks.

But i even tought about making a external add-on for the carma2 menu, which could be similiar to the menu inside the game, which would have a car-shop to buy pieces for a specific car (i can make the macro program modify the values written on the .txt files of the cars to change the specific values which each piece we would buy, with the credits value saved in the save games), this is a project that is possible to made and not very complicated, but it would look better than those boring upgrades inside the game to increase power, strengh and defensive. Later i give more details on this project, but this would be similiar to GRAN TOURISM 3's system to buy pieces to improve the car, i can't believe that c2 players wounldn't like this!!!

I never heared anything about that "Shapeshifter", but i really doubt that they would make another game similiar to Carmageddon2, don't forget that if they make a car racing game, they most probably would incentivate racing laps and do the best time, not to destroy things like in Carmageddon2 (of course i am not sure about their projects). But at the moment i can't say i would hate that new games. But try to understand me, each time i master the editng on a game, imediatly comes another new game to learn the editing all over again, that way this would not ever finish ! I spent too much time with c2 editing and i won't quit this so easily, so even if it comes a carmageddon2 sequel, i have doubts i will quit c2 editing, unless Stainless make that game so editable as carma2...

Yes, those objects in GTA3 are mostly the traffic light posts, you probaly have dificulties to knock them down without cheats, but i knocked them down many times and it's irritating to see my car pass trought the posts (and in c2 i even managed to get traffic lights hanging out in the kurbs of bridges or checkpoints, very cool !!). But if you drive a car very close

to a wall with the doors opened the doors will pass trought the wall.

Well, that thing of cars "barrel rolling" if it's possible to put in carma2, let's don't blame the game just because the authors didn't put that there, fortunally the game is very editable. Oh my... that thing of "barrel rolling" reminds me one thing i have done one time in carma2... i was playing (with cheats, to have be able to destroy and smash everything, with the Big Apc truck converted from c1) in the track "Maim street" (which was converted from c1 to c2 by errol, do you know that track ?) and one of the times i was smashing everything at about 800 mph with solid granite, invulnerability and grip-o-matic tyres cheats with unlimited time (which is my favorite thing to do in c2), i sudently saw a green car (you know, those noncars from maimstreet) spining on the road like a propeller ! It was the funniest thing i saw yet, and i imediatly saved the replay and it looks great ! Just image a car spining on the road like a propeler (in vertical position, rolling on the road like a wheel and touching the road) forward, like if it was a wheel !! I would sent to you the saved replay, but i converted it to .avi file, but it still have 2 mb, if you want it just say. Oh and other thing i think it's also very fun it's to make objects and things spinning at high velocity, that's one thing i like very much in carma2 physics ! Fortunally in GTA3 that is also easy to do, but only with cheats !

Oh yes, you are lucky i already done a thing like that about those boxes U and V in the texture mapping, just two of the macros i already maded (and work, but ONLY with a certain macro express running on memory) are for that, one is that when we press the keys (anywhere inside the Plaything2 window) make that. When you press ALT+KEYPAD + the macro program moves the mouse to the place that the number of the U box is and click once, so we can write there ! So you don't have to use the mouse, just press ALT+KEYPAD + and you can imediatly write numbers on that box without touching the mouse ! And for the V box is ALT+KEYPAD -

So what you think ? But for that you can't use Ez macros, only Macro express ...

Oh yes, good ideia i can make a macro that resets both boxes to 1, that it's easy... Another new keyboard shortcout to create...

See it's this kind of sugestions i can do easely (and not making plaything2 accept another 3d file formats) i want more,

if you have any like these just say.

Don't be surprised if i would accept everything that you say, but this thing of U and V boxes i think most people would like

also that functions you said !

There is one problem, tough, you can't never move the mapping toolbox from it's place (a macro is activated each time we start plaything2 and that macro moves the mapping toolbox on the left side of the window on a fixed spot) because the macros use screen coordinates to move the mouse...

Well, well, well, that's one thing i didn't thinked yet... a new navigation system... well, i don't have doubts that that

navigation system is far better than the one existing in plaything2 ! Hum... i will have to think very much, i don't know

if this is possible. But at least i already maded some macros to rotate the view some degrees, for example, there is a keyboard shortcout to make we rotate 90 degrees in the 3d view (read the menu options in VIEW - VIEW ROTATION KEYS, tell me that do you think its also usefull ? Even tough you can't experiment them right now...), because the macro program can simulate several strokes in the cursor keys, but with the mouse i don't think so...

You gaved me such a great ideia, that thing of mouse navigation, i don't know yet if it is possible but i will study that

and later i give more details, but for what i am tinking maybe it's possible ! Keep dreaming !!!

Now about that two questions :

1. Hum... yes i remenber that thing of hingable bridges, in reality i didn't made them, but i just know how to do them, because i already done some experiments, for example i have maded a hingable door, but only using the physics of the bounding boxes (almost circular bounding boxes !!) and worked because i have "incased" two bounding boxes (like the door hinges in real life) but if you strike on them too hard they may freeze the game a little and jump of the hinges... and with pinball mode you can't even touch the door, because if not the door jumps to the void at a 1000 mph... And i made that WITHOUT using that WORLD_HINGE_JOINT, but i could use that function to help the door not jupping from there.

But yes i already used that function of WORLD_HINGE_JOINT work, but there is a problem, using that you can only define ONE

hinge for each object, but they work. The format is something like this :


0.052, 0.031, 1.516 // that's the coordinates of the point which the object is fixed

0.2 // friction

1 // this i don't remenber what is

If you want to use this, don't forget it's only one hinge possible, someone tried to put two, but we can only have one noncar command of each time.

The way i thinked to make hingable bridges, is to model some supports for the bridge (with EXACT bounding boxes) and then

one of the supports would have a function to rise (live a elevator) which would rise the bridge. Yes this is complicated

stuff, but i don't mind, as soon as i finish improving plaything2, i will develop these advance tricks, you can't imagine

how many tricks like this i have imagined, i even have one that would make a pedestrian grown to a giant !!! (using several powerups, each one with a greater grow size than others, but it would affect all the pedestrians... but if the track have only one pedestrian is good to make a giant boss just of a little man !!!)

Hey i have tried to apply grooves on normal noncars, and it works, the collision works well and the noncar moves, but you

can't use on objects that aren't noncars, if not it appears those colision problems...

2. Yes, weather effects ... it's possible to do that, because i already saw some games using 3d rain, and using FUNKS maybe

it's possible to simulate rain... but it would take some extra polygons, but i haven't quited that idea yet... I even thinked of making 3d clouds and making them move with grooves !!! (and it's good because grooves don't move the colision box without a bounding box so the clouds would be pass-trought)

As you see i have so many ideas, that as soon as the plaything2 modification is done, i could improve and make all these

ideias much quicker than before, and people here at CWA board would be VERY surprised of some weird ideas i have. I even have

a ideia to make buildings explode to pieces... or even making a city be in ruins by a atomic bomb blast (a nuclear meltdown)... as you can see i have many ideas !! But there is also impossible ideas i can give you some of them :

.planes dropping bombs like in some missions of TDR2000

.control noncars (those with the function of a elevator) with the keyboard

.make 2d rain or snow like in GTA3 (but 3d rain or 3d snow IS possible)

.make drones explode or be cut or fall pieces

.make the water rises (flooding) or lower water

.making a afterburner like the one of TDR2000

.making pedestrians throw things

.making grooves follow paths (no linear)

.make noncars be bendable or cut

But these ideas are possible, and please tell me which ones do you like more and which ones you think are good or not !! :

.make a 3d spherical sky like in TDR2000

.make parked cars (smashables) to explode and jump pieces like the cars on GTA3 and even turn black

.make combos of powerups (for example, we made a HIDDEN room with a kind of horizontal elevator and some smashables

in front of it, and when we step on some material the elevator moves, smashing each smashable on the way, and each one of those smashables could activate a specific powerup, and we can add new powerups without erasing the older ones in the powerup.txt file, but those new powerups can't be activated by cheats, fortunally. This combo of powerups it's the secret of that idea of making a pedestrian grow to a giant SLOWLY)

.hingable doors and bridges, using EXACT bounding boxes (even cilindrical bounding boxes) and "incasing" them just like in real life

.use grooves on a noncar (so we won't worry about the collision problem)

.make secret cars to gain in certain tracks (like a specific opponent is locked in a secret room and we have to discover a way to open that room, and then just waste the car and buy it at the cost of 0 if it is a secret car... it's possible because you can't buy cars that weren't wasted...)

.making horizontal black holes that sucks things in (not very realistic doe to limitations on c2 engine...)

.bend wires (yes, this is possible thanks to one of the bugs existing on carma2, those wireframes of the glasses in the big building of glasses on the AIRPORT levels, i have maded them to bend just by hitting my car there... even in the original release of Carma2 without any modifications ! Just look at the screenshots that i have emailed you (c2 scientist). But you can't save this on replay because when you will see the action replay, the wireframes are already bended from the begining of the track, and that isn't true, so it's the proof it's a bug of carma2, but this is a "good" bug don't you think ? Because the wireframes bend in a realistic way i think)

.make traps on the tracks like in Tomb Raider, for example when we step on a material some invisible noncar (with a horizontal elevator function) would push a big boulder from a mountain to fall on the road

.make the fall of meteorites and even a cratter where it lands (if nothing gets under the meteorite) and making a earthquake effect when it falls !

.selling drones and earning credits as we could do in Grand Theft Auto 2 !!! (well this is a very complicated thing, and i even am not certain if this is possible, it would be necessary to make a structure that detects the bounding box limits of each drone, or even making a invisible hole on diferent place for each drone)

.make earthquakes (yes, i discovered how to make that, fiddling with the DRUNK DRIVER effect) and that thing of the inversed controls of the car can be realistic considering it's a earthquake)

.make a background music play in the whole track from a wav file

.make elevators move on diagonal motion (using static 3d supports as noncars with exact bounding boxes)

And many other things that are surprise... Lumberjack if you are also readind this as i advised, tell also which ideas you think are good or not.

Chris on Sat Aug 17, 2002 9:39 am
hey, cesm20, you ara doing a great job keep

it up. Anyway is it any way to get the cops from c1 back in c2, and they come after u if u drive to fast or hit any peds???

and if u drive slow they don`t come after u [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Lumberjack on Sat Aug 17, 2002 8:49 pm
Aha! Yes Cesm, you found the word wrap function, it's much better the way you replied to me. Thanks for that.

Regarding C1, don't worry... just put in the suggestions that we've made that you can do, everything else we can figure out, I was just checking in case you could do some stuff...

It wasn't Macro Express anyway, it was the other one... Automate... but the macro express I got didn't work (file was corrupt)... so I'll look again when I get around to it.

Talking about the rain... you said you could only do 3D... not 2D... don't you mean the other way around? Explain a little more.

Regarding that import sdf thing, I know what you mean, and yes I think Scientist misunderstood... I think he was comparing opening one object by: open sdf (in the menu); and your import sdf... obviously wouldn't notice any difference just with one object... is that what you meant?

That addon with buying car pieces is an interesting idea, but I'm still not quite sure how you'd achieve this... explain please.

Grooves on noncars: now that is interesting, I like the sound of that... make some with moving spikes and stuff!

3D clouds: I think it would be better to use animation and funks for that, to save on polys in the map... unless you wanted low cloud perhaps, or mist. Incidentally, you could create a moving rain pattern in this way, that could move around the map. That would be a little closer to real weather effects. Let me know how feasible that sounds.

Grooves following paths: you said it is impossible... but it is possible, with cars at least. I'm not sure about noncars, never tried... but there are many options for different groove paths... circular arcs etc.

I especially like the TR-style traps... that would be a fun track to drive around! And the earthquakes, but only if it wasn't constant.

Well that is all, again!
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