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The real Carmageddon II Online...
[M[]M]Wolverine created The real Carmageddon II Online... on Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:34 pm
Hello folks,

Over the past few months i have read numerous threads regarding online support for Carmageddon II. It's such a shame that nobody bothered to have a go who has the knowledge, well until now that is. For a while i have been working on a project along these lines, but i have kept it a bit quiet until i was more sure that i could produce the goods. It seems now, theres an extremely good chance that i can. In fact i'm confident i can get a FFA and Race mode completed fairly easily with 4 players and possibly more.

I haven't had time to make any decent videos, but i knocked together a cheap 2min or so fraps video when i tested some simple driving and collision with a friend of mine at home over a wireless network (tcpip) this week. All i need to say is that ignore what looks like lag on this video, fraps makes the game run so crappy and it's not a result of the coding or network congestion. It actually runs very smoothly without fraps, as it should do over 54Mbit LAN. I took it at high quality because i wanted to make my in game GUI clear to see.

The network side of the mod is coded in Java, with the meat coded in C++... and of course the GUI pain-stakingly reverse engineered in DirectX7.

It would be interesting to hear some of your views on such a mod, i know theres plenty of C2 fans around. Really i only started this project to gain the extra knowledge, but maybe it would become popular.

Anyway enough babbel, here is a link to that video: http://www.tdr2k.gamingsource.net/momv3/temp/C2O-BETA1.rar

As the mod progresses further i may begin to document it on my site, however my aim is to bundle this online support with Rax X's update to his own mod, C2Adv. Of course it also depends on how a mod like this fairs, legally. If MTA got away with it though, well...



TTR on Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:15 pm
Hah so you took my advice (or idea) that i said pretty some time ago on your forum :grin: i would look at the video, altho the link seems to be not working at here...and i really like to watch! :sad:

But nevertheless...great hella of a job!
User avatar
C2_Scientist on Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:32 pm
Hey, seems great! And working too! :thumbsup:

But this was a local, quite high-speed network, right? Now it'd be interesting to see how everything works when the client is located a little further away, and has a ping of 80-120, for example... I've played MTA too, and its 'unsynced' movements and everything are quite horrible to experience, I certainly hope your mod works better. Which it seems to, at least in local games. (I believe you've tried MTA, so you probably know what I mean by the MTA's flaws... although the MTA Blue is supposed to fix those all)

I'm anxious to hear more about this... most excellent if it works! (But I'm not too sure about the bundling with C2Adv, but hey)

And how about another video with more speedy action? :smile: (now that the we've seen GUI, could you perhaps increase the framerate?)
User avatar
Alex_Dynamite on Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:05 pm
Cool! Haven't seen the video, but, cool.

I'm no programer, but, if there is anyway I can help, I'd be glad to.
[M[]M]Wolverine on Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:35 pm
Thanks for the positive feedback so far guys. My development has gone through many phases LOL, i started with a cheap Visual Basic version and tested this online (with pings of 60+) with a friend and apart from the early flaws like getting stuck in the ground and having no collision, it ran pretty well. VB is pretty slow with low level stuff, so i expect better results with using C++/Java now. Also, i managed to figure out how to control cars speed on the fly, so in the event of data taking so long to get to the server, the "current momentum" can keep the car in question moving as realisticly and as smooth as possible. A bit like what is used in games like Need For Speed: HP2 :smile: Theres nothing worse than having multiplayer that plays like a robot with high pings, a bit like MTA started out hehe. This helps immensely when cars are moving at high speed, it reduces the jitter of the server waiting for data at intervals. It was a cool find when hacking the game so far, as it brought in things like opponent sounds which now work (you hear the other guy doing a skid), their reversing lights work (when they revserse of course) and the wheels turn when they drive!

I tried the link again for you all and it seems ok from my end, but i have had a few people (in certain countries) tell me that my site don't work for them. I'll try and find another host if all else fails.

I'd like to make some more videos too, lowering the quality and such should allow me to demostrate some big wastes and maybe some stunts too hehe. Hell maybe i'll try and record a race! I'll let you know when i have some more.

Until then, any feedback would be much appreciated. I am always on the look out for new ideas. With this mod i decided not to go the tcpip emulation route, and instead i rebuilt it. This means i can support addon cars/tracks, synchronized peds (lag permitting) and a whole host of other things which cannot be done with respect to the in-build ipx multiplayer. A campaign mode (everyone contributes to completing the game missions) may also be possible.

P.S. if everything goes well i'm sure there will be many tasks for people to chip in with! There will be all sorts to do.

NitroX on Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:44 pm
I think you should have a seperate website for this whole project .. I could probably put something together with a bit of criteria wolverine. btw, this is kilroy talking.
[M[]M]Wolverine on Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:30 am
Indeed a site of it's own would be a good idea... that would be helpful as i'm a bit short of time to start making brand new sites at the moment. Theres no mega rush, but i guess details, videos and screenshots could be put on there for people to see :smile: I also have a full custom logo completed from when i started development.

P.S. i thought it might be you Killr0y, with that same picture as MSN!

By the way sorry i missed our last game Killr0y, i waited up for a while in the evening but i guess you got a bit busy and was late. I was knackered so i had to go and sleep... :P
TTR on Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:03 am
Yup i cant connect to the site either, say, cant we hook up on msn? try [url=mailto:thorax22@metallica.com">thorax22@metallica.com[/url] :smile:
[M[]M]Wolverine on Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:52 am
Sure thing. I don't have MSN setup on this laptop at the moment, but when i get on the desktop later i'll add you to my contacts :smile:

P.S. should anyone need to refer to the mod at all, this is the current logo i am using... it's just taken from my load screen at the moment. Feel free to rip it apart as you wish if you need to fit it anywhere!


Right-click and choose Save As if you have trouble viewing .tif images in you browser.

TTR on Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:57 am
Doesnt work yet again, hey maybe its blocking some ISP's or something? or IP's even...i could go on the site in the past (the posts in the forums be there as a proof lol) oh well..
[M[]M]Wolverine on Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:02 am
Yes that's what seems to be happening. If you cannot access the site even via http://www.tdr2k.gamingsource.net/momv3/ then i cannot put it down to much else. If it's just the start page links that don't allow access it might be down to the use of Javascript for the redirection to the momv3 folder... I'm going to e-mail my host and and find a small file server to rehost these little items.

UPDATE: Ok i have setup another webspace account from my own ISP, it consists of space for images and a briefcase for files. You can access any images that i upload from: http://uk.geocities.com/keith.mason18@btinternet.com/

To access any files (such as the video) just goto: http://uk.briefcase.yahoo.com/keith.mason18@btinternet.com it has been set to public access so you should not need a yahoo account.

Hopefully all this works, at least until gamingsource find out why some people cannot access my main site and webspace.

TTR on Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:35 am
Aaah they work perfect now, say, thats amazing :eek: thats what we all dream about :grin: great job!
NitroX on Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:09 am
@ Wolverine : No problems, it's probably just the timezones .. your evening is my 3 o'clock :grin: anyway .. Do you think you might be able to get that TIFF image without the "Loading Please Wait" I could probably use that as a background, if you'd like?
nWo4life on Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:45 am
Oh my goodness, I watched the video... Damn. This way I can play Carmageddon with people like TTR, Holik, [url=mailto:K@VeRa">K@VeRa[/url] and much other people. Y'know, this should kick MTA's ass!

I will read the whole topic when I got more time, maybe this question has already been asked... Does it supports Add-on cars?

Other than that, awesome shit!

Greetz, nWo4life
[M[]M]Wolverine on Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:13 am
Yes funnily enough i do have another one, i have uploaded it to the images webspace i mentioned earlier in the thread. It's called wallpaper.jpg

P.S. the only problem i forsee with cars is being able to dynamically change them during a multiplayer session, other than that there is no reason why clients and the server cannot select a car (including addons) before the host launches. The car configuration for that session will stand until the host closes their game, and everybody selects their car of choice again b4 the host launches a second game. You never know i may be able to do the dynamic thing, but either way doesn't sound too bad to me really.


NitroX on Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:00 am
According to the slogan, I have just used the best hosting on the planet *coughs* .. anyway .. here's a link http://c2online.netfirms.com .. If you are seeing grey squares it is because of dynamic html isn't implemented yet.. I'll work out the kinks tommorow, for now .. here's a screenshot of the site in creation..

[M[]M]Wolverine on Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:26 am
Thanks v. much indeed Nitro, i'll keep you posted on anything that could go on there. There will probably be some more videos tomorrow or the beginning of next week.
NitroX on Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:16 pm
For sure, just drop me a line on my msn anytime. :beer:
NitroX on Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:43 pm
Update: The site design is completed for the time being .. right now the issue is to add a bit of content .. should be up by tonight.

Kilroy out.
User avatar
Toshiba-3 on Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:39 pm
Image / carmageddon add-ons at road reaction
User avatar
C2_Scientist on Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:11 pm
Agreed, and the community certainly could use more people like him nowadays, such talents don't wander here so often...
NitroX on Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:39 pm
@ Toshiba-3 : I figured someone would run into the problem :sad: .. I really only built this temporairily .. the current dite is built for a big resoltuion also.. tommorow morning I'll be doing some image conversions, I optimized the site for png .. just as a test, as all the images are originally produced as png's. Should convert to jpeg's after.

@ C2S : Trust me, it's really the attitude the community has.
blacksunshine on Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:57 pm
after one hell of a try, i could not see the video, but all of this is a GREAT thing going...

keep up the good work, hope to play you online soon,B.s. :thumbsup: :rockon: :rofl:
bruner_james on Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:44 pm
this is really really cool. i can't wait to see more news. :thumbsup:
blacksunshine on Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:14 pm
this video..is there another way we can see it?
[M[]M]Wolverine on Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:23 am
Wow looks like i will have to keep a regular eye on this thread :smile: Thanks for all the upp-age. I don't know really what other way you could see the multiplayer in action at the moment apart from me recording it. I can take screenshots too but it's not really going to show you much. Also the video is .mpeg so if you just see a blank screen or it complains about codecs you must download the .mpeg codec for your video player. The sure way to see the video is to use Windows Media Player and download Fraps from fraps.com. Fraps will install the codecs for you instead of having to trawl around for them.

There will be an up and coming phase in the development shortly when i will require testing. The client/server chat room is almost ready, and as you may have seen the in-game stuff is coming along. Theres many small things like synced respawning, health/damage and such which i'd like to tie up before i think about testing this very early beta though. With the results, perhaps then i can concentrate on the fun stuff like the game modes!

As soon as i have any further updates rest assured they will be here and on the site that Nitro has created :smile:

Hope this helps,

TTR on Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:37 am
You can also try renaming the extension to .mpg :smile: dunno if it helps, it did for me in the past...

Anyway, about the very few ppl of us posting here is due to the fact that ppl dont post here and just read or because ermm...its in the carmageddon 4 forum :grin: it really should be moved to the c2 editing forum which then also should (i think) be read more :smile:

I sure know all the ppl that play C2 like to have the online feature so dont let yourself down by thinking less post less wanting in it but that should be all wrong you see :smile:

I, for real, like this thing going big! :grin:

Anyway, this is like a dream come true :smile:
NitroX on Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:09 am
Alright, Image's converted to jpeg .. shaved off a huge ass amount of bytes .. works good?
blacksunshine on Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:52 am
thanks, ill try that. sounds like you have been bizzy... i am excited like a 12 year old school girl over

all of this, it's like christmas! :rofl: :beer: :thumbsup:
[M[]M]Wolverine on Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:57 am
Hi, lol i almost thought my thread got nuked... phew! Sorry about being in the wrong forum, i thought that might be the case but after seeing the other c2 online threads there i "joined" them :smile:

Anyway, i have a little treat. An 80mb full lap of beaver city... it's uncut and shows your dreams but also the current bugs hehe. Well, the only bug at the moment is that the car has some troubles with ramps and steep roads but i know whats wrong and so i can fix it pretty quickly. You will see in the video that when this happens i stop, and some text appears in the chat box. This is me typing the command /respawn into the client pc which re-issues a new "up/down" coordinate to the server. I was too eager to make this new video so i actually mastered the art of playing c2 on two PC's with my own two hands!!! Yep, it was just me and noone else.

My only issue now is where to stick the video, the only logical place is my own site because i doubt netfirms will allow such a large file. Hopefully in an hour or so i will be able to provide some sort of link.

CORRECTION: 50mb video (i have managed to compress it a bit more)

UPDATE: Typical theres nowhere decent to host large files, my last resort was my own but now that i have dicovered the www. bug with my site i would think the majority of people can access the video. I'm sure you kind people will share the file among those who have problems :smile: Enjoy!


NitroX on Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:44 pm
haha, no, netfirms gave me only 25 megs .. I can't upload files bigger than 10 megabytes besides. I can post it up as a link on the downloads section. I'll add this to the updates also.
[M[]M]Wolverine on Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:52 pm
Yep, i just had a go at logging into your space and added a little bit of news onto the main page about the new video to make sure the account worked for me. If you could put the links to things so far in the downloads section that would be great yeah, thanks.
Dark_Angel on Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:27 pm
wolv, i've found rapidshare.de to be quite useful for shifting data.
[M[]M]Wolverine on Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:29 pm
Cool, thanks i'll check it out maybe i can put a mirror on there :smile:

UPDATE: Great, rapidshare seems to be working. It's uploading JUST ABOUT hehe, my file was 46.9mb rar'ed wow that was lucky (50mb limit). Mirror link coming soon.
lentilky on Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:51 pm

i realy like what i read and saw about this.

its nice too see its working, even after a "few" days after

the release of c2 :grin:

if you need a little help with the coding, i am an java programmer.

i can code c++ too, but today i only code java and like it more than c++.

nevermind fell free to contact me, if you want!

hope to the see the project growing...
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