The CWA Board

keroltarr · Post by **keroltarr** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:20 pm

Howdy yall,

I have an idear. I'm writing it all up in a word doc file. Here's the first part. Tell me what yall think.

Introduction

Since Torus games seems to have abandoned the Carmageddon Series, I propose that we make a new game. Why? Because I want more! I want more tracks. I want more realism. I want more game play options. I would call this new and improved game: C4. We can avoid copyright infringement because the ‘C’ doesn’t stand for “Carmageddon”. The title: “C4” will attract Carmageddon fans as well as anyone who likes explosives. And yes there will be plenty of explosions in the game. If we accomplish nothing else, maybe we’ll scare the Carmageddon developers into releasing a new game in the series or expanding an old one.

TDR shortcomings

Carmageddon 3 TDR (arguably the pinnacle of Carmageddon-ness) lacks so much of what it was intended to have; not to mention stuff that we would just like it to do. Tracks are virtually impossible to make and add-on cars are extremely complicated to create and don’t force any kind of realism. You can make any block of metal drive like a sports car. You can place the center of gravity below the ground, make it 0-360 in 2 seconds regardless of size or shape. While other failings of TDR will be discussed in the next sections, I won’t discuss everything that is wrong with it because I want to concentrate on C4 and its improvements.

Resources we need

We will need lots of talented Carmageddon fans. The kind of people that create add-on cars for C2 and TDR; the kind of people that turned C2 into what it is today. We’ll also need money. No, I don’t expect people to work for free. I myself would donate some time to organize this but I’m NOT gonna quit my day job unless its worth it to me, financially. We need sponsors: perhaps a publisher that’s willing to invest in the idea. Car manufacturers may pay to see their cars in the game. Heck we could sell advertisements for anything displayed in the game.

Thanks for your input,

Keroltarr

Lewy T

<FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="http://www.cwaboard.com/ubbthreads/dopoll.php"><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="pollname" VALUE="1042240812keroltarr">

"What do you think of this idea?"

<input type="radio" name="option" value="1" />It's STOOOPID!!!

<input type="radio" name="option" value="2" />No comment.

<input type="radio" name="option" value="3" />Hmmmm, tell me more

<input type="radio" name="option" value="4" />Cool! keep me informed.

<input type="radio" name="option" value="5" />I'll even help if you pay me enough

<input type="radio" name="option" value="6" />I'd be glad help for free just to see this come to life!

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:26 pm

Something like that already exists and I'm trying really damn hard to remember the name. My memory sucks right now, sorry to the guys working on it :P This is really pissing me off. The name is right on the tip of my tongue (figuratively speaking). Ummm....Rust Riders, Dune Warriors, Waste Racers, god dammit. I'll get it unless someone else posts here first.

keroltarr · Post by **keroltarr** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:43 pm

Is it steel of haste or something like that? I've seen that somewhere but didn't just what it would be like.

Keroltarr / Lewy T

flykas · Post by **flykas** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:21 am

Steel of haste www.clevers.com it's something like carmageddon but it's not so good.

It's racing around the track where is no pedestrians.

And about c4 it would be whery cool if you (or should I see we all comunity)make it more like TDR not like c2

-[ Raven-X ]- · Post by **-[ Raven-X ]-** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:22 am

"Since Torus games seems to have abandoned the Carmageddon Series,"

Which is the best thing that ever happend to the series

Not that they where ever in the series, but still.

Reno · Post by **Reno** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 8:50 am

I would be glad to help out if this goes ahead

Later

C2 Scientist · Post by **C2 Scientist** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 11:06 am

Not again... "C4"... TDR was Carmageddon TDR 2000, not Carmageddon 3: TDR 2000! (or III, whatever) Ok, it's a sequel, but the name is not Carmageddon III!

Remember this.

Dark Angel · Post by **Dark Angel** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 11:23 am

well actualy the US version was called Carmageddon 3

C2 Scientist · Post by **C2 Scientist** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 11:26 am

Was it? That explains a lot... but it wasn't like that here in Europe!

My game's box reads: Carmageddon TDR 2000.

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 11:41 am

TDR2000 is the 3rd installment in the series so calling it Carmageddon 3 is correct. If you won't accept that then get the hell out of this forum. I can't stand C2 anymore because of the endless game crippling bugs, but you don't see me in the C2 forum bitching about how crappy it is. Nothing will ever fix all the problems.

keroltarr · Post by **keroltarr** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 2:25 pm

Howdy folks,

I dont want there to be any conflict here about the title of the game. (some attitude for a carmageddon fan huh) That is the least important part. I proposed "C4" because it is NOT "Carmageddon" I don't want to get sued by whoever owns the carmageddon series by using their product's name in my product. The only reason I want it to be remininscent of Carmageddon is to attract Carmageddon fans. C4 could mean an explosive substance. We could call it "Car Combat Championship Convention"; that's 4 Cs. We can change the official title at any point up to the publishing date. I'm glad to see positive responses to this idea. Here is some more of my doc file... Still interested?

General Concepts

A few concepts I would like to see in a game include the following

Calculated stuff

You couldn’t just make a custom car with super tire grip, and engine torque. You would assemble a vehicle using parts available in the game. Things like mass, center of mass, wind resistance, and even price would be calculated after the car was assembled. If you want to make custom parts you would select the material it is constructed of and design its shape and details but mass, center of mass, and price would still be calculated by the game. There would be a lot of details to work out but ultimately this system would make for an awesome game.

Not just wheeled vehicles

TDR has tanks too, yeah but does it have legged robots, airplanes and boats? Different kinds of propulsion systems would make such a game much more intriguing. Amphibious vehicles would be an option too. Imagine an F18 versus a corvette versus an amphibious ATV. The jet could go way faster than anything else but it would have to land and taxi around to get through the checkpoints. It would need lots of room too. The corvette would be fast on the ground but would need to stick to the pavement in order to get to anywhere w/o difficulties. The ATV would be the slowest but could make shortcuts across water and rough terrain. Such a match-up might be a close race. In any event it would be weird and crazy just the way we like it.

Not just vehicles

Why not go GTA-style once in a while and exit your car, be a pedestrian, and wield personal firearms. As far as that goes why not have “structures” too? An example would be like a guard towers and cannon turrets with guns and lots of ammo and you could shoot at people as they race around the track. That would be fun!

Better weapons

Not just slaughter mortars and mines that do little more than throw a car off the track. I would prefer a game with machine guns, cannons, missiles, bombs, and other weapons that look and act realistically.

Realistic Damage and Repairs

You want to repair you vehicle? Go to a shop! An auto repair unit would cost a lot of money, take up a lot of room, and use fuel to run: it may not be worth it. What about flat tires?

Money matters

If you can’t afford gas, you can’t have gas. If you can’t afford repairs, you can’t have them either.

Better controls systems

Each type of vehicle would have a different key configuration. Driving a mech or on foot might work best like a FPS game. Cars would be normal car controls, Tanks might have a different keys for turning the gun turret than for turning the whole tank. Airplanes would fly like airplanes, etc. You get the Idea.

Better Multi-player

Not only more play modes would be nice but more server control of restrictions. One thing that has always annoyed me about TDR is you can have SSC (server set car) or random cars but not both in a multi-player game. It would also be nice to be able to force the in-car view in a mp game because that really makes game-play different.

I’ve often wanted to play TDR and drive a slow car that is a sweet ride and make others drive similar cars w/o making them drive the exact same thing. Like imposing a class system. It would be nice to allow joiners to pick their vehicle but restrict the options they have. Examples: Only ground vehicles; only cars; only sports cars; only class B sports cars; only airplanes; NOT airplanes; only ground vehicles, not tanks, not legged. You get the point (I hope), you could have both inclusions and exclusions, use more than one mask at a time, heck you could even create a list of specific vehicles allowable in a race.

When I get my DSL service back (I'm changing providers) I will set up a web page and start assembling a team.

Keroltarr / Lewy T

flykas · Post by **flykas** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 3:04 pm

would be cool to have this

when car is damaged to much you must get out of the car and get back to the youe garage and other cars can hit you like you hit pedestrians .And if there was zombies they would try to kill you

keroltarr · Post by **keroltarr** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 3:44 pm

Yes, that is definitely a good idea

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:08 pm

Ruin Nation! That's it. http://www.cyberdwarves.com/ruin/story.html

keroltarr · Post by **keroltarr** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 2:58 pm

Raven-X's post made me wonder if I was attributing the creation of the Carmageddon series to the correct company. I said Torus... is that not right? Is it SCI? I want to be politically correct ya know.

I took a look at that Ruination site. It looks pretty cool. I didnt see any demos tho, just models of cars. I didnt see any info about game-play or anything. I git the feeling it aint very far along. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to start our own project.... whadayasay?

Dont make me do another poll.

Keroltarr (I need to git me a sig)

PS I'm currently working on player controls setups concepts.

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 3:09 pm

Actually making a game and talking about making a game are two different things. Unless you're in the industry or have a lot of experiece in 3d design, coding, working with others, and all that other shit, a community made C4 is never gonna happen.

n3wton · Post by **n3wton** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:04 pm

I have to agree with Mad_Max_RW with this one, am afraid it isnt going happen, as a community, dont get me wrong Carmageddon II Advanced, is brilliant, but its the same old game at the end of the day, nothing new, no new graphics engine, no new psychics... dont get me wrong these cars people release are awesome, but you can only go a certain amount, no one its gonna make a C4, unless you have the team but most of all the technology..

keroltarr · Post by **keroltarr** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 7:27 pm

I 100% agree with yall on this. I dont expect Carmageddon fans to turn into an elite team of game developers. However, on this forum, congregates modelers, web-site designers, and a large number of potential game-testers. My purpose in posting here was not to find a complete team of trained professionals but to see how well a C4 would be recieved in this community.

I intend to continue my plans, do some more research, look for programmers and other neccesary personnel and of course look into getting some sponsors and/or investers. Ya cant expect to accomplish much without money these days.

later,

Keroltarr

Reno · Post by **Reno** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 9:34 am

Similar to what flykas said only when you get out of your car, you can jack other cars parked up somewhere like the GTA series and how this works depends on what sort of settings the game would be in, wether it's set in a time like the original Carmageddon was, where the cities are all trashed, unpopulated (well the only things that populate the cities are you, the other racers and the zombies), burnt out cars etc etc OR set like Carmageddon 2 and TDR are where you have drone cars with normal ppl driving around asif nothings happened, which is a bit stupid really and the cities (especially in C2) look like nothings happened, they look like everyday, ppl still work and shop in these buildings type cities, they just look unscathed! Ok granted TDR had a couple of good messed up maps, but the majority of them still looked like everyday, ppl still wander around here like nothings happened cities. Now if you set the game like C1 which has the best sort of 'Mood setting' of the lot, that would work well cause aswell as having old burntout cars scattered around the cities you could have standard (no modified) abandoned rust buckets that still work laying around the cities that you can steel to get yourself back to the garage when your 'Proper' car gets to a certain damage level and can't be repaired so it's just left there to R.I.P (Rust In Pieces) (sorry I couldnt resist that

) while you haul your ass back to the garage in this discombobulated

old rust bucket you found laying around.

Anyway, just an idea, and if anyone can make sence out of any of it, I'll give you a Smiley Face

lol

n3wton · Post by **n3wton** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:55 pm

This sounds like a BiG Mission making C4 right... the things you want are all in GTA, wouldnt it be easier to convert GTA to Carmageddon rather than Carmageddon to GTA

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 2:21 pm

The last thing you want to do is fall into the pit that is the GTA3 community. Helping Beroc and his crew dissect TDR is the most realistic and achievable option.

Dark Angel · Post by **Dark Angel** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:26 pm

Kruszchev · Post by **Kruszchev** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:24 pm

Beroc... slice up TDR please!!!

Carmageddon'72 · Post by **Carmageddon'72** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 5:30 pm

Re: Maybe I'm the millionth person who asked it,but....

From: info

No plans just yet for a Carmageddon 4,buy every news will be shown at www.sci.co.uk

Ghhh.....x_x

Kruszchev · Post by **Kruszchev** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 6:18 pm

What i want is that they make a game that is something like C2 and TDR, but im not found in walking outside the car and shooting... it kinda screws up the game somehow in a game whit death race style...

hell its like walking outside yr car during a Demolition derby race.... to shoot the other competitors

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 7:55 pm

During a Demolition derby race? Sounds just as bright as a chicken-race against a train to me.. BAam! hehe

Kruszchev · Post by **Kruszchev** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 8:19 pm

remeber a BIG train

Econobrick · Post by **Econobrick** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 10:17 pm

ok, i should've wrote this earlier, but tdr (flashy graphics with poorly concieved cars and bad gameplay

) is more like the 4th game! has EVERYONE forgotten the splat pack (which was basically the complete opposite)?!

ok, so that's not really true, as SP was an addon...so forget that.

but was hyper-fun-like.

<intermission>free gift! here! </intermission>

in conclusion:

Carmageddon One through Two: good! TDR: bad! bye!

additonal okays, it was stupid to write this in the TDR forum but i'm but a bored person with little to do at this time, so don't ruin my fun!

Kruszchev · Post by **Kruszchev** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 10:47 pm

hehe... still happy about splat pack... i agree SP is a very fun, only bad thing is that the graficsm, but its unresonalbe to disscuss a game that was made 96/97 dont realy remember... while TDR is somewhat newer

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:46 pm

I'll take this time to point out how terrible the default Carma 2 cars, tracks, and graphics are. Oh, and you can't forget about the endless list of game stopping bugs. :P

The original Carmageddon is the perfect game. I can't remember it crashing for no reason at all, and had so much more to it. The Splat Pack is by far the best expansion ever released. The cars were kinda stupid, but that was the point. The whole game was totally insane. Carmageddon 2 took itself too seriously. At least that's the impression I get from it. None of the cars were interesting and the tracks were boring as all hell (except the airport, which was awesome). This is also the single most unstable game I ever played in my life. But the game is fun, and that's what is most important.

TDR2000 feels more like Carmageddon1. It has its share of problems, though. Most of the default cars are dull. The tracks are better than the previous games. TDR has the crazy atmosphere from the original. Dark, kinda gritty, and a bit cartoonish. The gameplay is exactly the same as the first 2. You drive around crashing into other cars and running down pedestrians. That's fun. Really the ONLY thing not great about the game are the damage models and whatnot.

Carmageddon + Splat Pack = perfect game for its time

Carmageddon 2 = buggy as hell but fun, which is good

TDR2000 = good graphics, tracks, and a helluva lot more stable than Carma2. Fun to play.

What's the argument here? All I see are dumb fuck Carma2 purists who forgot about Carma1 and have nothing else to do with their lives but bitch about stupid petty bullshit. If anything Carma2 is the worst in the series.

Econobrick · Post by **Econobrick** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:58 pm

speaking of taking things too seriously, i think you took my previous post the wrong way. (the fart noise should've given ya a hint.)

!??!

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 12:15 am

I make a habit of not downloading stuff AND things. random wav files fall into that category. Plus it's past midnight and I haven't slept in roughly 48 hours. Having to read Kruschev's confusing posts makes me dizzy.

autopilot · Post by **autopilot** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 12:33 am

Well the Idea of ruin nation is so stupid to me cause its just so over done and expected, sand buggys.. armour cars with guns... mad max crap driving around in a stupid desert. there already are games like that out there, and even more are being thrown in overflowing toilet... like steel of haste.

people think it fits in with carmageddon, but when you disect the game its what you said.. youre racing/crashing cars and killing pedestrians.. the only thing to be considered "apocolyptic" about the game is the games name, thats all, and so many people get mis-conceived about it i guess.. when you look at the content - the cars and the tracks and the pedestrians, there is nothing apocolyptic about it at all.

And that C4 discussion is just another dumb idea like ruin nation.

Its only stupid to me because I dont even like carmageddon for what it is.. like you said the cars are stupid so are the tracks.. I only like C2 cause I can make my own cars for it and download other peoples.. AND DESTROY THEM - and C2 is the only game worthy of that.

But if you want to try building a game.. well its your game right? You can make it whatever you want it to be. Its just a lot of work

Tactical Police Demolition Unit · Wed Jan 15, 2003 1:04 am

Like we've all heard before, "If you don't like it, then don't play it." There are people who are interested in it and would like to see it released.

Dark Angel · Post by **Dark Angel** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 7:39 am

it's amazing, so many people seem to hate this game, but you cant stop discussing it...

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