TDR drones are concrete boxes!!!

[Fred-[Tre-CooL]]

It's impossible to dent those drones.

Why the drones in TDR are worse than the drones in Carmageddon II?

I thought TDR was more perfect than the older versions of Carma in all the points.

Or at least whith the same perfection in some aspects.

Of course the game is still good but they failed in this point.

[Dark Angel]

As usual SCi didnt give a games company enuff time to finish it's game, so destructable drone cars is one of the many things that had to be left out.

SCi suck big monkeys!

[Crashtest]

anyone think we can fix this???? the c2 community is quite an amazing bunch o' psychopaths,,,

[-[ Raven-X ]-]

Crashtest:

the c2 community is quite an amazing bunch o' psychopaths,,,

And 99% of it hates TDR as much as a person can hate something.

[*ReDeeMeR*]

me want destructible drone cars.i will do anything i can to help

[zanetheinsane]

Not to mention the computer controlled opponents are insanely difficult to damage. Hitting one head-on at nearly 190mph will do about 9% damage to it and nearly destroy you're car. Great damage system, really... *rolls eyes*

ZTI

[PumaY2K]

heh... TDR opponents will never dent in any form or even close to Carmageddon 2 opponents... Carma2 has the best damage system...

[Dark Angel]

tdr has the same damage system to c2, they never changed it

[Spanx]

that is one of the things that pisses me off about tdr. i mean sure, the drone cars are now normal size, but what fun is that if you cant smash the living hell out of them once and a while? someone needs to find a way for the drones to be damaged.

[Beroc-Lord of Destruction]

I beg to differ DA... TDR's damage system is based off one deformation mesh... C2 is based of of individual deformations. Here is how I know.....

Vehicles which have rotary items, like a sawblade... forgot the name of it... ran into something... the deformation mesh was pushed from the bottom upward in the front.... causing a skew effect.... happens in c2 and tdr... the blade... skewed whiile it was turning... constantly deforming..... In c2...the blade would maintain the deformation, and rotate it with the mesh. Also.... if you run head on into a wall with a car that has a hood.... the hood deforms in the exact same fashion as the body... keeping the hood from bowing like a real hood would.... in C2 the hood will bow, fenders will flare and you get a better looking result.... IMO they did a shit job with the deformations in TDR, and the drones are simply extensions of that shit job....

[Dark Angel]

nope, well, you got some of it right, tdr uses the same damage system to do it's stuff, but the other parts of the game, like damage detection and implication(sp) change it to the need of the damage. which is why sometimes when you hit a wall or another opponent you hardly get any damage at all.

You can ask torus this too, if you so please.

The drones were almost destructable in the alpha and beta's, they were never finished. In one of the alpha's, torus made just the texture damage, so when you hit one it used the damaged texture.

This was removed for some reason for *final* build.

[Beroc-Lord of Destruction]

My guess that it would be texture space.... damaged textures for drones would take up alot of space....

[Tactical Police Demolition Unit]

Even if we could make the TDR drones destroyable, it would take a heck of a system to play TDR just becuase of the drones.

[Crashtest]

well any recent system with a decent vid card should be able handle it... provided the drones don't get to fancy.. like half that of a c1 car in polys

[Beroc-Lord of Destruction]

I kinda agree and disagree.... if the drones in TDR were dentable, that would be easy... and I don't see why they didnt do that... but damaged textures would get a little out of hand... TDR still chokes on textures occasionally. TDR map textures are huge, and I believe that the drone textures arent much better. I know that C2 doesnt like 512x512 textures, and I don't see where TDR is much better about em either.... Recently the models I have been doing could go on 256x256 maps, and the quality wouldn't decrese that much.... Just that some of the writing would be a little less ledgeble... not that you ca really read shit in TDR anyways..... and heaven forbid you have the texture display level on anything less then 100%.... Sigh, but I digress.....

[gPstr]

A few thoughts on this thread:

First: TDR damage is less convincing than c2 damage. That's a given. The damaged textures in TDR look like they were sketched in (poorly I might add) with a pencil. They don't look like dents and torn metal; they look like the best that a poorly skilled artist-wannabe would hope would maybe pass for such. I don't think the TDR deformations are as bad as others have said, but they are certainly inferior to c2's. And actually I think that the TDR detachables are generally better than c2's. Well, except for BumbleBee. I seem to spend entirely too much time driving around with a chunk of BumbleBee fender stuck in my grill.

The beginning of this thread was a complaint that the drone cars are undamageable, then the response was that that was some fault on the part of the developers. I don't see it that way; it's more a simple gameplay decision. Drone cars are not targets-- they're obstacles. You can't damage them, and really should avoid hitting them because then you take damage, so that becomes part of the game. And I think that in the long run the interest of the game would go down if it were otherwise. The way it is right now you have to go about as fast as you can while testing your driving skills by making corners and avoiding obstacles, including drone cars. If they took damage then you could just go flat out and hit everything in your path. That would take away some of the challenge, and challenge is what makes a game fun.

About the amount of damage you give and take:

I played c1 when it was all there was, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. When c2 came out I was initially unimpressed and the damage given and taken was part of what I didn't like. In c1 you don't have much time and you spend a lot of it brawling in close quarters and giving damage a bit at a time. When I first played c2 and spun and rammed another car and did absolutely nothing to them I thought "What the hell?" It took me awhile to figure out that I had to get a good running start to do good damage, and that with a lot of the cars I had to not only hit them hard, but in just the right place. But that was okay, 'cuz I had all sorts of time to set up for a hit, and because when I hit them I generally didn't take any damage at all, no matter how hard I hit, so if I got them turtled I could just go up the street a ways, spin a 180, get lined up, punch it and BLAMMO!

So the first time I played TDR and I got someone turtled and went up the street a ways and spun a 180 only to find my intended target gone, I thought "What the hell?" And the first time I got a good start and hit someone really hard and took more damage than I gave I again thought "What the hell?" But eventually I figured out that the damage in TDR is not like c2; it's like c1. You only have a limited amount of time, and you spend an awful lot of it brawling in tight quarters and giving and taking damage a little at a time. You can push a car against a wall in TDR and then just punch the accelerator and keep giving them damage for awhile. When you stop doing damage you can back up maybe a meter and hit 'em again. In c2 that wouldn't do anything at all; you have to get at least a good ten to twenty meter runup to do anything at all. But if you try to do that in TDR the odds are that the target's going to be back on its wheels and moving by the time you 180.

I don't see all this as successes or failures on the part of the developers; it's just two different approaches. C2 is more fun to just drive around in 'cuz you can do more cool stuff. When you've got an hour on the clock you can just drive around until you get a good opportunity. Say you come around a corner and there's a car on its back. You look around and find a good sharp edge and then go the other direction a bit, 180 and come back up to the car slowly. Pull up until you're touching the car, line up with the corner or the barricade or whatever, then punch it. I like to get a car right on my nose and take my hands off the wheel and wave bye-bye to it as it hits the edge and splits neatly in half. That's a very cool thing, and you can't do it in TDR, but in some ways that makes TDR better. Yeah it's fun to push another car on its back for 200 meters and get up to 300kph and smash it into a wall, but it's not very realistic. The reality is that if you hit a car that's at a dead stop mostly what you're going to do is dent your own car and maybe slide the other one a meter or two.

So with the time limit and the quick AI car reset and the potential to take lots of damage yourself, TDR is less sheer fun than c2, but I don't think it's fair to attribute that to some failing on the part of the developers. It seems more to me to just be a philosophical issue; they've traded off fantasy for realism. I don't see it as necessarily either better or worse, just different.

Jeez, I can sure go on, huh? Blah blah blah....

[Dark Angel]

Dude, you could write for a magazine.

[Aaron]

TDR damage doesn't suck that bad with high-poly cars, like beroc's or anything not released with the game, but with the blocky-ass drone cars, all they do is shrink a little when you hit them on a certain side. I must say though, when I was playing the alpha test demo, I was quite impressed with all the detatchables of the eagle- but that's really what makes the eagle the only good-gamaging car in the game- it's superior poly count to all of the other cars included in the game.

[Axle]

gPstr... that was amazing! Hehe, as said before, you should really look into a journalistic career.

[ash]

God Im not going to write as much as "gPstr"- Dude that was inspireing but i will say this Carmageddon TDR is a good game BUT it could be a whole lot better eg. The drones are one thing, The running in to pedestriens is another- if u run in to sum one a 200mph there not going to just lose a leg and the graphics on most of the cars- there to dirty looking!!!! Well thats my imput!!!

[DiNGo]

I agree on many of the above things. But let me add something.

In TDR you can drive up a 90 degree wall and stop on it as you drive upwards, then drive again. Looks like a lizard. Thats VERY unrealistic. Dont even need wallclimber popups now.

When you hit a drone truck thats many times bigger than yourself. You shouldnt be able to just bounce it away like it was nothing.

Cause thats not fun. You can drive trough a hell of a big pile of drones and come out on the other side like superman.

And I miss the wreck gallery after each race. You cant see how the cars got wrecked after you wasted them.

All cars have same steering wheel and the dash are lame. I liked the way cars like the Viper GTS in Carma2 behave.

TDR could be more fun if it was more like Carma2 in the handling and other stuff.

[ July 19, 2002: Message edited by: DiNGo ]