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Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

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coffeycup
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

For that pathmaker.html open in browser window and then open PT2 maximize top view, switch to wireframe if its easier to see road and put cursor where you want a node. Look at XYZ coords in bottom left. Type into pathmaker.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Oh. OK, I was asking because I have no idea what it is, but it sounds like a helluva good thing-I've just see it's tag in your text files. Where can I find it?

EDIT: Nevermind. Google is my friend. I found it. :grin:
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Mad_Maxine »

Lookin nice sofar there,
Sorry I havent really been keeping up with things latly so I missed quite a lot,

You still need me for, pedestrians, and drones, and tutorials on ped setup, drone setup, and paths, or not? heh, cause rember to have spawn places :P tho.. I guess I dont need to tell ya that? max map worked great.

How big ya recon this map is gona be?
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Heh. Max map worked great 'cause Coffey made it work that way. All I did was make some terrain until CarEd puked on it. At the moment I know next to nothing about mapmaking, but I DID find out just how much stuff I could make CarEd hold before it had a stroke.

Nah, not ready for stuff like that yet and I have to redo what I was working on as pretty much everything pukes on it.
I have learned better control over the consistency and scale of things (road widths, guardrail heights, radius of curves (To keep from making odd or decreasing radius curves) which I hadn't yet figured out when I started the map in the pics earlier. I have the old model for reference and I plan on redoing it better as soon as I get some more time to devote to it. Just the lil' bit of terrain I made for maxmap took me a year. (That's CarEd.) Sketchup will take much less time.

So-back to the beginning with a lil' better idea of what I'm doing in Sketchup. Shouldn't be too long I'll have it worked out again. It was pretty big, but not as big as maxmap. That thing is epic.

Soon as I get something together on my own that works ingame-I'll holla atya.

Thanks fr offerin'. :smile: I need all the tuts I can get ahold of.

@Coffey: I found an old thread where you were helping Turnip with a track he was having trouble with (banger track) and I saw a lot of similarities with what I was going through.
Copied the list of things you typically see wrong for a reference checklist.


Anyways, just for the helluvit, I added some more stuff (hills, roads, textures) to the test map just so I could run the .skp through the process from start to finish again to make sure I was doing it right. (And was practicing texturing curves without screwing up textures.) Updated the game files and all is well. I think I got the terrain part down. Only added a few more curves and only added one more texture- (road section with an arrow near the end of the new, long straightaway to warn me there's a turn coming up)-eyedroppered existing textures only, otherwise.
added stuff to make sure I'm doing it right.
added stuff to make sure I'm doing it right.
newtest.jpg (80.71 KiB) Viewed 17140 times
Driving past some added stuff:
Driving past newly added hill.
Driving past newly added hill.
Landautestmap.jpg (49.92 KiB) Viewed 17140 times
(Couldya please resend that ase2asc proggy as a zip or something again? My email provider blocked the (.exe or whatever it was). 'Preciate it.

Thanks again, man.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Razor »

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To download the BETA Mod and more information on my other work, visit me @ https://razor.cwaboard.co.uk
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Thanks, Razor. I was looking for a specific version (1.1.4-Coffey sent it to me). I'm using 1.1.3 at the moment but wanted to use the same version he's using.
The latest version does me no good whatsoever as it was the reason all my textures were turning black. Once I started using 1.1.3, everything worked like it was supposed to.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Yo Coffey. I finally got some time to mess with maps.

I got this ingame just to try it out, but can't drive on all of it because the camera stops halfway through the tunnel (Red arrow) to the west. I know I have to move the whole map eastward more to bring the whole thing within camera range, yes? (North/South ranges OK so far.)

It's not near finished yet, but I'm liking the loooonnnng straightaways already.
layout.jpg
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Dezval.jpg
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Canyondn.jpg
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Last edited by Deep_Blue on Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

The neighborhood near Smalmart is still under construction. How thoughtful of the builders to leave a low dirt ramp near this foundation hole.
INHOLE.jpg
INHOLE.jpg (60.45 KiB) Viewed 16961 times
Nice circuit around the lake, though. Graceful curves that can be taken at fairly high speed.
Lake.jpg
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The local Smalmart parking lot
smalley.jpg
smalley.jpg (39.25 KiB) Viewed 16961 times
Last edited by Deep_Blue on Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

The tunnel to the west I can't drive all the way through yet.
tunnel.jpg
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Mastro 666 »

I like this map, it reminds me of Delta Force and Trespasser.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

OK, somebody canya tell me where I'm screwing up? Like Coffey says, this isn't supposed to be hard. Maybe I'm making it harder than it has to be...

Because the camera was stopping in the tunnel to the west (kept losing car)-I moved the whole map eastward a goodly bit to try and cure it.

The camera doesn't go past +/- 1000.0 (X/Z), right?

According to the .dat file in CarEd (because I can't get the map to focus on any given point in PT2),
whythefuck.jpg
whythefuck.jpg (41.71 KiB) Viewed 16944 times
The top left pane is "Top", which is what I want for finding the start point coords.
Do ya hafta pray to the rendering gods to see more than a sliver of your project?? WTF?

The easternmost part of the map is at x=845.0
The westernmost part is at x= -293.0
The northernmost point is at z= -502.0
The southernmost part is at z= 460.0
movedmap.jpg
movedmap.jpg (40.36 KiB) Viewed 16946 times


I redid the whole process of getting the map ingame after moving it in Sketchup. Funny though (mebbe because I don't understand the coords well enough) that the transformation matrix coords are still the same as from before I moved the map (maybe because the size is unchanged?) anyways, the GRID START POINT coords are also the same and I would have expected them to have to change after moving the map as it would then be in a different place in space.

They're the same as if the map wasn't moved (even though the game's .dat file shows it has.)

Nothing's changed. The camera still stops in the same place in the tunnel.
Before ya say it, I deleted all the previous files before I moved the map and re-converted it so there were no leftovers causing problems.

Epic WTFness..
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

I don't know why camera is stopping on west side. It has always been North/South no limit. West no limit. East max is 1024 (if I remember right). If you import the ACT file of maxmap or bigtrack into PT2 you'll see everything is over on the west side.

Is it rotated 180' in PT2? Anyway, if it isn't changed, i.e. start grid is still correct then you need to delete contents of folder (you can keep TXT file anf RGB folder but get rid of the ACT, DAT, etc) not just copy over because it isn't replacing apparently.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

LOL. OK.

OK-"west" in Sketchup is apparently different thatn "west" in everything else.
Ya, 180 degrees around.
What I'm calling "west" is what C2 says is west-as in 270 degree heading.

270 deg. heading is where I had the camera problem.
I moved the map in sketchup so that everything was just "east" of center.
Now I can drive the map in it's entirety so far-all the way "west."

Go figure me this now....I can drive "west" all the way to where the road ends (as far as I made roads, so far.) and drive off into oblivion (recovers)........but......I can't....turn around and drive BACK THE WAY I CAME without the game hanging up (freezing) completely and I have to do a hard shutdown (power off) to get out of it.

red arrow is where the point of no return is, roughly.
gofigure.jpg
gofigure.jpg (29.25 KiB) Viewed 16940 times
Does the track not being preprocessed have anything to do with that or do you know of something else that might cause that hangup?
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

I never heard of that. This only happens if you drive off edge and recover? Then don't drive off edge!
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

No! No! LMAO! :lol:

(Doc it hurts when I do <this>. Doc: Well don't DO that!)

Previously if I just drove off the end of the road-the car would just autorecover back to right before the edge. Then it would hang the game up solid if I turned around and tried to drive back the way I came. Now I can't even get to the edge.

It happens once I get past where that red arrow is. Right before the curve.
Ran it again just now and the game froze up solid just after I rounded that last curve before the bridge where the road runs out. (90 deg heading. but on north end of map).
gofigure (1).jpg
gofigure (1).jpg (42.49 KiB) Viewed 16932 times
Wottahell?

And again... I am still ending up with a bunch of skewed road textures. They're all sized correctly, but I'm still ending up having to adjust road textures quite a bit in places. How the everlovin' fuck can I avoid having to do this? I know... I know....it's not supposed to be hard.. but shit, mon.....Whaddya do when the texture doesn't go on right-other than tweak it. (I'm only using fixed pins. )
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

I don't know what to do about your problem. I showed already how I get textures to align that always works for me.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Well OK then. I guess I'll try moving it over some bit more... I dunno.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Don't touch the blue or yellow pins. Just green to scale and rotate.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

All right. I fixed the not being able to drive around the corner issue.
Had to move the map a bit farther west and a bit south. Now I can reach the end of the road so far AND turn around and drive back.
fixed.jpg
fixed.jpg (49.2 KiB) Viewed 16909 times
I guess it wasn't south/westerly enough.
I WILL get the hang of this eventually.... :techsupport:
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

That's looking freakin' cool btw.

Edit: If you compare top view from PT2 and Sketchup you'll see it's rotated 180. Once you generate a map.pix you'll see what you thought was north is south. :)
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Yup. I noticed the back-asswardness when I actually LOOKED at the map in 3DS Max. That's where I first noticed it was the other way around. I just hafta remember to move things the opposite way it's gonna end up when I'm in Sketchup.

This thing isn't anywhere near as big as maxmap was, but it's a pretty large area-plenty of room to get cruisin'.

This is a remake of the map I sent ya before that ya couldn't get to open. It was originally supposed to be a mountainous area with lots of canyons, some tunnels, a desert area and freight destinations along the way for Maxy's truck mod. Now that the last version of her mod apparently ain't gonna happen-I edited out all the whistle stops except for the Wal-mart clone..

Working on completing the track circuit now. I'm just concentrating on getting the terrain right at the moment.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Toshiba-3 »

IIRC the camera stops at +500 on the X axis. It's a weird bug but it can be used to create an effect telling the player not to go further in that direction.

Nice to see you getting the hang of track making+importing, D_B :)
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Is it 500? I couldn't quite remember, 800 or 1024 were coming to mind. Either way it's not a very big distance and you end up with the map all to one side. I guess there's a limit in the Y axis too from what D_B was seeing? I didn't know about that, at least I don't remember hitting it.

D_B, I wouldn't get rid of all the whistle stops. It's a good place to put some "local color", peds and smashable junk. :twisted:
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Ah. OK Coffey. I'll put some of 'em back. ;)

Good stuff to know, Tosh. Thanks. So far I'm into the 1100's in the westerly direction. Just moved it further west today because the game still gets flaky once I get past a certain point.

I still got a lot to learn... Hey Coffey...I tried your pathmaker the other night. Made something like 110 nodes. Tell me-is the path an absolute that things must follow, or is it an 'if they really feel like it' thing? Cause I had opponents go as far as a certain node and either stop or get stupid and start slowly wandering off track in a random direction. (Shroedinger's AI?) I know there's variables that can make an opponent go elsewhere (such as interaction with player in range, etc.) but to slam into a wall and stay there the entire race?
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

If they always get to a certain point and then go stupid and slow down and wander you probably got a bad coordinate entered.

I have a new pathmaker I use that is kinda impossible to explain how to use. :crazy:

If you send me your map I can whip up an opponent path for you.

The new pathmaker uses a top view screenshot from PT2 that you click on where you want your nodes, but it's real quirky and hard to explain the steps. It'll be quicker for me to jus' do it. (plus I wanna try the map :wink: )
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Oh, OK. Well soon as the track makes a complete circuit-I'll send it to ya. I've been trying to fix the freezing-weirdness, but maybe it's just my laptop that's freaking out. I seem to remember it doing that on the maxmap, too sometimes.


I'm also trying to straighten out some messed up textures (using only the green pin). ;)
I've found that layers of alpha channeled textures produce weird results ingame sometimes.
The example being a steel bridge I built and then put clear "windows" in the spaces between the girders so you couldn't drive thru them into places ya aren't supposed to go-but like that strange effect in CarEd with the car hauler accessory in maxmap, the girders behind the 'windows' keep blinking in and out of view as you drive by them and some disappeared altogether, so I guess I gotta get rid of the 'windows.'

Soon as I get it all banged out. :grin:

Ya, musta been bad coords. I was real tired (It was well after midnight) and I think some of the coords were on road section vertices (corners) instead of in the road. (Which might explain the crashing into walls and stopping....)

Speaking of maps...I generated a map.pix in PT2 and copied the coords it spit out into the txt file where "Map transformation matrix" goes When I hit the map key ingame I get this:
nomap.jpg
nomap.jpg (52 KiB) Viewed 16740 times
While it is almost a map, it ain't particularly useful...

Do I need to do something else to make the map's map work?
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Deep_Blue wrote:Oh, OK. Well soon as the track makes a complete circuit-I'll send it to ya.
Well if your opponent path isn't a compete circuit then that's why they act all stupid. Also I think if any two nodes are too far apart they get lost too.
Deep_Blue wrote:Do I need to do something else to make the map's map work?
Carmageddon being what it is..weird. You can't use the PIX that PT2 generates as is.

You need to use a Japanese program, yes Japanese, to convert the PIX to BMP. Then open BMP in your paint proggy and resave as TIFF and put THAT into your map's TIFFRGB folder.

Here's a link to the program:
http://coffey.polygonized.com/files/pixedit060.zip

Here's the two buttons to use:
Image

See, simple... :supercrazy:
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Sonofbeech! OK, Now I know some stuff. Thanky. I would never have figured out the map pix.

Makes sense the opponents not giving a shit where to go what with no complete circuit to loop back to node 0 and all.... *smacks self upside the head* Well duh! :lol:

How far apart is "too far apart?"

Meanwhile, having found out that I somehow-even with the measuring tool-made one road wider than the other (Sketchup seems to get retarded when you're not drawing stuff on absolute X or absolute Z and stuff goes awry if yer not paying attention to where the lines are wandering to.....) But only one road is actually really different than the one it meets up with-so I recovered from the mistake as gracefully as I could with my perseverance and limited knowledge (and NO desire whatsoever to go back and redo a shit-ton of roadwork just to fix one intersection....and then I thought...yeah...roadwork....)
Confuzld.jpg
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Confuzld2.jpg
Confuzld2.jpg (108.66 KiB) Viewed 16949 times
The too-wide road goes down to one lane coming down the hill to match up nicely to the normal sized road. Something else to interact with.

I should prolly redo that "Road Closed" sign as a noncar. Once I learn how to add them.
Plus some barrels and stuff by the big hole. I've seen funks and grooves in track txts. Wonder if I could stick some flashing yellow lights on top of those Jersey barriers? Funks I can do...

I guess I coulda done worse! :grin:
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Deep_Blue wrote:How far apart is "too far apart?"
I don't have a number, I don't even know if it's true. Just don't put them 'miles' apart.
Deep_Blue wrote: Sketchup seems to get retarded when you're not drawing stuff on absolute X or absolute Y and stuff goes awry if yer not paying attention to where the lines are wandering to.....
You just need to learn to use SketchUp better. I find it can be very accurate. Are you using the OFFSET TOOL to get consistent width roads? Don't try to 'eyeball' stuff.
Deep_Blue wrote:Wonder if I could stick some flashing yellow lights on top of those Jersey barriers? Funks I can do...
Yes, think of the animated video walls or blinking hotel signs in some of the maps. It's all in the Tutorial for making C2 tracks or look at Blunderdome map. Also you can add FUNKS to your lake water so it doesn't sit still like the Dead Sea.(Check the lake in MaxMap)
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

OK. I didn't when I tried to make the first path. Just so long as they don't have to be every couple (scale) inches.

Didn't even consider the offset tool. Now I will. I was just using the tape measure to make guidelines once I had established a correct with road section (2 1/2" lane width eyeballed against a carmageddon car parked on a road section). I notice when trying to draw lines that are on weird angles to the X/Z axes-I hafta rotate the scene a lot to get the lines to go the way I want them to. (I would get frrustrsted and push/pull the part I needed from the roadway>move it to where I wanted it>rotate it>and drop it where I wanted it and texture it if I couldn't draw the lines in the directions I wanted.. Royal pain in the ass.

Far as the blinking lights-I will check out that tut. Ya, slithering water would be nice. Thanks. :)
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

The construction site is a good solution and adds some interest.
So, for your screenshots. Umm, you know can Export a better rendering without all the toolbars.

File >> Export 2D Graphic...

You can also temporarily hide the black poly lines

View >> Edge Style and uncheck everything.

You can turn on shadows too.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

coffeycup wrote:The construction site is a good solution and adds some interest.
So, for your screenshots. Umm, you know can Export a better rendering without all the toolbars.

File >> Export 2D Graphic...

You can also temporarily hide the black poly lines

View >> Edge Style and uncheck everything.

You can turn on shadows too.

Ah, OK. Duly noted. I haven't had the time to find all this stuff out yet. Thanks for the tips.
I refer to this thread when needed. ;)
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Straightening out some 'local color.'
smalvil.jpg
smalvil.jpg (82.59 KiB) Viewed 16327 times
adding terrain and finishing roadways.
hole-wall.jpg
hole-wall.jpg (107.42 KiB) Viewed 16327 times
trukramp.jpg
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

ramp2v.jpg
ramp2v.jpg (63.32 KiB) Viewed 16327 times
trucksigns.jpg
trucksigns.jpg (67.13 KiB) Viewed 16327 times
lakecroc.jpg
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by QTZ »

I have translated (using G. Translator) PixEdit help files to English. There is description how to use transparency mask.

Edit: File is moved here.
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