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Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

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Deep_Blue
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Figured I'd keep screwing with this one atm.

I got the thing ingame-but everything's black for some reason. It started out black in PT2.

From start to finish, I exported a partially textured Sketchup file as .3ds
Opened the 3ds in Max>exported ASE with texture mapping.
Opened ASE with ASE2ASC and converted to .asc

Imported .asc in PT2. (There is a TIFFRGB folder with tifs) Everything's black. So I change the textures in PT2 so they're something other than black or a solid color.
Preprocess and save sdf

Chuck TIFFRGB folder and track .act, .dat, .mat into TRACK folder in RACES.

Make quick mostly empty track.txt and add track to game.

Run track. Car and opponents are there. Everything not sky or cars is textured black.

Drive around crashing into mountains because everything is textured black. :lol:

For whatever reason (my inexperience and unfamiliarity w/the progs I'm now using), the textures I provided are not appearing in the end result.

Track works ingame-textures are wack.

Camera stops after awhile of driving and car keeps going. I seem to remember you saying on the maxmap that ya hadda slide the whole map over in space so that it was centered on 0,0,0 so the camera doesn't stop cause the map goes out of bounds, but first, my texture goofup.
ingame.jpg
ingame.jpg (24.27 KiB) Viewed 8737 times
Driving around this track (what I can see of it), I see I need to widen a couple roads.

EDIT AGAIN*

OK. I see where the black is coming from.
Somehow the textures are not making it past the conversion.

.asc shown loaded in PT2:
PT2blackmats.jpg
PT2blackmats.jpg (65.95 KiB) Viewed 8730 times
The texture *names* are there, but not the actual textures. (They're black.)
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

It sounds like you're doing the right steps. If you don't see a textured model or the thumbnails in the Material Grps window them you can stop there. Something is wrong with your export.

Check your SketchUp Pro 3DS Export options, this is mine:
Image

As far as camera stopping and car driving off. Map needs to be moved to the left or west or -X direction:
Image

Camera won't go past roughly x:1000 so just keep everything to the left of it. I just move the map in Sketchup over so the centerpoint is close to the right edge. Then you won't need to move it in PT2 it'll all ready be where you need it.

If everything is too small, try scaling it down not as much.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Ah, OK. Now I can use that info. Thanks.

Before you answered, I tried screwing around changing the colors of things in PT2 using the solid colors in the materials editor so as to be able to differentiate beetwen different surfaces ingame.

Limited success.
Sp_mats.jpg
Sp_mats.jpg (19.3 KiB) Viewed 8725 times
The textures seem to be getting lost somewhere between importing the .3ds in Max and importing into PT2. That leaves either the Max export settings, not having the (Sketchup exported) images in the right place, or I'm not doing something right using ASE2ASC.

When I import the .asc into PT2, It asks for 'Special_Material1', 'Special_Material2' and 'Special_Material3' and THEN it asks for the materials supposedly exported through Sketchup and then Max. They're *all* black. I changed the colors of only the 'Special Materials' in PT2 to get the contrast you see above. The other textures I changed (Named textures from the file with actual stuff on them) never showed up ingame.

The track text file I used was Savage Elve's empty track text with just the absolute necessary stuff to make the track work ingame changed.

I get the move map thing for the camera boundaries. I'll do that first off.

My settings are as yours are except 'export standalone edges' and 'Generate cameras'
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Uncheck 'export standalone edges' and 'Generate cameras' or it WILL mess up.

I don't know where you're getting 'Special_Material1' and 'Special_Material2' do you see them in SketchUp Materials list?

If that doesn't work just send me the SKP so I can open it up and see what's going on. This back and forth is like a game of telephone.

Edit:

Dirt road no curb
Image
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Ya, agreed. telephone sucks.

OK, I unchecked those options and I'll try again using your exact settings in Sketchup and the suggested settings for ase2asc (that came with the file) and see what happens.

AH! Just saw your edit. /me gots it now. *SMACK!* That never occurred to me. Thanks!

Just looked in the model's materials list and I see the following colors/textures that *I* dod NOT create or add:

0135_DarkGray
<beige1>
<charcoal>
<LightGray>
<black>
<Color_B24>
jean blue

I have no idea how they got there unless they are the default colors that Sketchup uses for sky, whatever the green part that isn't the sky and the colors of the different faces and the x,y,z axis lines. Why they'd be part of my model, I dunno other than they are part of the scene.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Delete those colors. They're there from the default person that's there when you make a new file. Delete him too
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Ah, OK. That makes sense.

Anyways...I'm in over my head atm. Tried the last time and actually saw materials listed in PT2, but still saw the three 'Extra materials.' Dunno what's up with those.

Map showed up in Max with 'colors' instead of actual textures where I skinned it in Sketchup.

Gonna mail ya the .skp (sent)

Need someone who actually knows what they're doing to show me how to do it right.

Preciate ya offerin' to look at it.

I'd really like to know what I keep screwing up...or if it was screwed from the get-go. Once I can get past the texture issue I can get on with larnin' map setup.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Harmalarm »

Why are you not using my 3ds max exporter Blue?

What version of 3ds max are you using? If 2010 and above you can use my script and it will save you a lot of headache. It will export your 3ds max file directly to ACT, DAT and MAT files. It will also make it possible to do noncars and other funky stuff directly in Max. :wink:

you can find the files here:
Carmatools_20130131.zip
(63.93 KiB) Downloaded 141 times
The problem with .3ds exports and imports to 3ds max are usually the texture naming convention of 8.3. Are your texture/material names in sketchup longer than 8 characters? Otherwise the sketchup exporter will start using shorter names and shit will go whack!

Don't worry about the textures not showing because this is the most common thing going wrong with file conversions. I think when you already have a track ingame and where able to drive it you have come a long way on your own! :thumbsup:
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Well that makes me feel a lil' better, Harm.
Thanks for the input.

I purposely name all textures with 7 or fewer characters-no matter what. It's a throwback to the ol' DOS days.

So that's not the problem.

I have 3ds Max r2 and r3. The same result happens in both.

I'm pretty sure the problem is happening between exporting in Max and converting with ase2asc. When I import the file into PT2, I end up with the black 'Extra_material#' which subsequently ends up getting mapped to *everything.* Before I used ase2asc, I checked the Max export settings against the pic provided with ase2asc and they're dead on correct.

I did manage to modify those 'Extra_materials' in PT2 using PT2's solid colors-and it DID work, but there was no telling for sure exactly *where* they got mapped to.
So far I have not been able to see any of MY textures ingame.

I have noticed that when I export from Sketchup, my textures which are named (by me) "sand1", "granite", "Mount6", and "waves" become "sand2", "granite1", "Mount3", and "waves1."

Is this what I'm supposed to see in Max?
(only 4 textures applied atm)
loaded_Max.jpg
loaded_Max.jpg (27.09 KiB) Viewed 8675 times
Those aren't my textures. I don't think, anyway. They're where my textures are supposed to be, but they're just next closest plain colors.



Apparently ase2asc runs with that because when I try to import the .asc in PT2, it asks for the .mat file and then the textures I made (but have been renamed by Sketchup for some reason) show up with the new names and PT2 asks for them by the new names along with the "Extra Materials" that came from somewhere..

I can drive on the track. Physically, it acts like a track (minus any material modifiers like dust/skidmarks, etc. because they haven't been defined yet) and that ungodly bright foggy light because I guess there's no sky texture.

I guess I can't use your script because there's no way I'm ever gonna get a recent v ersion of Max on ma own. Not so far anyway.

I'm hoping it's just a stupid n00b mistake and Coffey will be able to point it out to me.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Your exports are fucked. I know you're just messing around fiddling with stuff in PT2, but until you can export properly everything else is really a waste of time and brain cells. You shouldn't have to do anything with materials in PT2 except maybe adding smoothing or 2-sided property.

Send me a SKP saved in SketchUp 7 or 8. I couldn't open what you sent.

Sky tiff needs to be manually added to your TIFFRGB and referenced in the "Western.txt"

Send me another SKP file and I will take a look and get it in game. I'll add a sky too. But I am not around tonight so might be tomorrow eve before I can look at again.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Hmm... ok.

Well. I guess that's that then.

OK. I'll zip up the original file and send it.

I figured about the sky.

Thanks for trying to check it out. Pro says ya can't open a v.8 file once it's been saved in Pro. My bad. Forgot about that.

(Original version 8 .skp file zipped and sent)

This is the (pretty much) fully textured one.

Thanks.

Hope ya can make sense of it so I can learn something.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Ok cool. If I have time I will look at it right after work tonight. I doubt there's anything major wrong with the map. As long as it's just minor stuff I can get a SketchUp model into C2 in 10 or 15 minutes for quick test purposes.

I'll make notes of what I find for problems...
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Thanks, man. I appreciate ya takin' the time ta teach tha track n00b.

:smile: I wanna know what you know.

I got the "getting the file in game" part down-it's the textures I'm losing.

:crazy:
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Well after exporting it and trying to import the .3DS into 3DSMax I get the same error you had:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Assertion Failed
In file '3dsimp.cpp' line:534
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I don't know what it means. All I know is it doesn't happen to me on my models.
I used same export settings as always.

There were some things I saw wrong with your model that may or may not be the problem.

Some polys are facing wrong way (look blue):
switch between "Shaded with Textures" and "Monochrome" views to see the bad ones.

Clean those 'extra materials'
Clean unused Components:
Windows >> Components click on House icon to see components loaded. Click
Details button on right and "Purge unused" that should empty window

Clean unused Materials:
go to Materials window, click on House icon to see materials loaded. Click
Details button on right and "Purge unused" that leaves just Mat that are used

Still have folder full of skewed road and forest textures
I don't know if that's an issue. But I only have one road.tif and one forest.tif with my exports.

Dead Horse
I hate to keep saying it, but this was exactly what I was trying to avoid when I kept suggesting doing a small track, textured, ingame and running as a first track. You got so much going on it's impossible to pinpoint where an issue is.

Isn't that what we tell all the wanna be car makers? Go make a brick with 4 wheels?
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Yes, LOL. That's what we tell them. You're absolutely right.

OK. Saving this for future ref. I just sent ya a version 8 .skp that only has 4 textures imported to it and spead around a bit with the eyedropper. It will definitely open in Max.

This is the file I first noticed the texture problem with.

I will do as you suggest and clean up unused stuff. Didn't know how to do that (hence the pile of garbage).

Also I will model something less complicated and try to get it ingame using your methods.

I'll letya know how it goes. Thanks for giving it a shot.

But please DO let me know if ya can get the .skp file I just sent ya ingame. This is the one I got in where everything's black.

EDIT*

OK, here's what I got in Plaything when I imported the model I sent ya. My textures were visible the first time around and no nhassle whatsover importing it.
PT2.jpg
PT2.jpg (46.73 KiB) Viewed 8642 times
ONE of these programs is renaming the textures because those are not the names I gave them. (Numbers added or changed-Mount 6 became Mount3, granite became granite1, sand 1 became sand 2, etc. And there's those damned 'extra materials' again.

SDF'd it and gonna replace that horrible black thing ingame and see what's up.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Well you're doing better than me. I see textures in 3DSMax but nothing in PT2.
I don't know what's going on and I'm done messing with this. :crazy:
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

OK. Thanks for trying, man. I appreciate the effort. :thumbsup:

I'll try making something smaller/simpler tomorrow and see if that works all the way through.

Meanwhile I'm flipping the blue faces I can find on the Western.skp (removed all the textures and then switched to monochrome like ya said.)

ase2asc is giving me the extra materials. It generated a report in the working folder.



I figure I got time this week and ambition, so why not?

Thanks again. (See? even if it doesn't work, I'm learnin.')

Half of finding out what I'm good at is finding out what I suck at.

:lol:

*hammerin' away*
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Harmalarm »

I remember having this issue with my very first track, but I just cannot figure out what it was.

You can send me the skp file and I can convert the whole model to the game format for you.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

If ya wanna take a look at it, Harm. Be my guest. It doesn't even have to get ingame-I've done that-I just wanna know what I did wrong to cause the issue so I can avoid it in the future.

This was supposed to be an experiment-me learning how to do stuff in Sketchup, but as I started playing with more and more features, it just kept growing.

If ya can remember what caused that issue, I'd like to know it. I got it ingame-it's just the texture mapping is whack. The 'Extra_Materials' Max or ase2asc is generating are the only ones making it through the process.

If ya got an email addy-I'll send it to ya.

Lemme go back and tweak parts of it that Coffey mentioned I should look at first.

'Preciate it.

Meanwhile I'mma take some of my newly acquired knowledge and try again on another one. Smaller this time. :smile:
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Hey Coffey...

I started small from scratch. Making sure everything's neat and tidy. Used your "pull up the curved road" method for curves and mostly it works good for me. I'm trying to apply the stuff ya taught me yesterday.

However....

Can ya 'splain this to me?
Curve.jpg
Curve.jpg (44.96 KiB) Viewed 8603 times
The texture comes from the flat road on the left. Lines up on the sides good all the way along, but will not apply right on top. I've tried working from the left *and* the right as well as from both sides of the curve.

Do you know what causes this? Howta fix it? (It's not s'posed to be this hard to do....)

NEVERMIND.

I made it work good enough by working off the other side again and *not* aligning the textures before eyedroppering them.
goodcurve.jpg
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Yeah, that technique is good if roads are flat. But it at least will take care of 90% of the getting aligned textures but might have futz with a few.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

:lol: *Futzing away* :lol:

I've been making curves with the arc tool. Then I break up the curve into chunks (end point to end point to keep it neat) like you said in your quick tut. So far every curve has given me colossal balls. Only one went off without a hitch. This last one I'm working on-pretty much every texture position is screwy no matter where I get it from. Ever had a curve break yer stones like that?
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Not really. As long as first one is lined up correctly you don't need to adjust. Only when you go up or downhill do the texture need adjusting.

It's supposed go quick. Eye dropper, Paint Bucket,Eye dropper, Paint Bucket,Eye dropper, Paint Bucket.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Ya that's what I've been doing. OK. I notice sometimes that things change (positions/angles of tool application) depending on what angle yer viewing the scene from, so mebbe the road I made angles up slightly.

Finally figured out the tape measure. Now I can keep my road width consistent and set guidelines. :thumbsup: OK. I was just hoping I wasn't the only one.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

You keep saying 'that's what I'm doing' when I give advice, and then come back saying you're struggling.
This is supposed to be easy. I'm lazy, if it was hard I wouldn't do it.

When you're moving and scaling textures you need to be careful not to skew/distort them.
That's how you end up with all the road01, road02, road03....

Image

You should only use the red and green pins. Blue and yellow will distort.

Read more here:
http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/94877

Maybe you just need to get more familiar with SketchUp...
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Yes. More familiar, I need to be.

I've been using unfixed pins. Hence the skewing, I guess. (I figured that the extra images came from every time I adjusted something.)

I'm trying to *not* have to adjust things so much just for that reason.

Thanks for the link.

EDIT:

"AH! I SEE!", said the blind man...
You're right. That WAS easy.
scurves.jpg
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Ok dammit. There's something REALLY IMPORTANT I seem to be missing here.

I modeled another small, fairly simple track and went through the conversion steps: 3DS export with proper settings from Sketchup. (no problem)>Import 3ds into Max. (no problem)>chuck the .ase through ASE2ASC. (No problem).

Open track in PT2 (No problem, textures and all visible from what I could see and they actually looked like textures and all materials are in the doodad at the bottom.)

Put track ingame with a blank track textfile from Savage Elve's website and BAM! **Everything** is textured fucking black YET AGAIN.

:techsupport:
2nd attempt
2nd attempt
blacktrack.jpg (17.53 KiB) Viewed 8558 times
There has to be some setting I'm missing somewhere along the line, either in ASE2ASC (I haven't touched any settings and am using it as it came out of the box.), or in PT2, or maybe even in the track.txt itself.

Coffey, I noticed for instance in your Bigtrack.txt-all that global lighting stuff that's in my track text is missing or replaced by -,- type stuff. Wassup with that?

I ask because The lighting in this (black) track is kinda bright like the aliens in Close Encounters.

Harm, You said something about having the same problem once way back when.....I'd sure like to know what it was.

Here's the map I made in PT2-textures are OK there, but what the hell are those 'Extra materials?' They're black, so I assume they're what's getting mapped to everything.
PT2OK.jpg
PT2OK.jpg (135.43 KiB) Viewed 8554 times
'Extra Material' info:
What the hell are these and where did they come from?
What the hell are these and where did they come from?
xTRA MAT.jpg (40.26 KiB) Viewed 8554 times
Last edited by Deep_Blue on Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

If you see textured model and all the materials in PT2 then you should be seeing in game. Send me the folder with the good PT2
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Harmalarm »

Just a quick check, are your textures all proper sizes? Power of 2? 32,64,128,256? Pt2 can show other sizes, game cannot.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Yeah, Harm might be right. I bet the 'skewed' tifs that SketchUp creates on the fly are probably odd sizes.

Also, I had already explained where the 'special materials' came from and how to clear them out...
You need to purge unused Components and then purge unused Materials. When you go to your Materials window and click on the little button with the house, it will show you only the Materials the map uses. What you see there for Materials is what will get exported. Simple as that. 3DSMAX isn't adding them. ASE2ASC isn't adding them. They are in the model you export. But I really don't think a few extra unused Materials is going to cause a problem.

If you send me your map that seems good in PT2 I will take a look.
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

OK, 'Preciate ya bearing with me, JC. I get the model ingame, but this texture issue is driving me nuts.

You're right about the skewed odd sizes. One is 64x48 and the other is 64xsomethingelse odd.

As far as 'unused materials', I went back to the sketchup model and did exactly what you said and deleted all the materials used for the guy that comes with Sketchup. Also did 'purge unused materials (there weren't any unused-option was greyed out-no extra materials in thumbnails list). Made sure I didn't screw around too much with stuff or import too much.
Also made sure all the faces were the right way around.

After my wife decided to water a plant she had placed on top of her PC tower (!!!) and drowned the router (*facepalm* I swear...This shit only happens to me.)-I figured as long as I didn't have internet access until the friggin' thing dried out, I'd go poking around to see where the 'extra materials' were coming from.

So I broke out the hex editor and went snooping.
Looked in every file along the conversion process and didn't see any 'extra material' until I got to the .asc file.
Ase2asc generates a "special materials" report:

(Multimat. 0, submat. 0 : this material has different 'ambient' and 'diffuse' settings, only the 'ambient' color was used.) ...and so on through all 18 textures. Apparently the ambient color is &%*#ing black. (This seems to be the whole problem).



So, ya. ASE2ASC appears to be adding them. You'll no doubt see the 'special materials' report when you run the .ase through.

I wouldn't think unused materials would cause problems, either. I figure the game would either ignore them because they weren't mapped to anything-or just the components they were mapped to would be that color.

Sending you the .ase and the .asc that shows textures in PT2 and the TIFFRGB folder.

Again, thanks for trying to help.

(Disregard this zip file. It only has the .asc in it-unless ya can use that. I emailed ya the .ase, .asc, and TIFFs.)
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coffeycup
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

Hmm, well now I'm thinking you're not doing the ASE2ASC right???

You sent me a test.ASE, test.ASC and RGBTIFF folder. But if you ran ASE2ASC you should also have a MAT file:

Image

I deleted your ASC and reran the conversion and got a MAT file like above.

I imported ASC into PT2 and there were no special materials.

Image

And this is what it looks like in game.

Image
Image

I made a quickie opponent path so the AI didn't just sit there. I'll zip it up and send it back in a bit.

EDIT: I resized odd tiffs to 64x64
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

OK, WTF???

I forgot the .mat file in the zip-then remembered I sent ya the ASE. I did the same thing with the odd-sized tifs

How th-....... sonofbeech!

So I HAVE been doing it right! Unfortunately somewhere I have the wrong thing(s) set!?

Are you using a different version of ASE2ASC than I am? ( I think there's more than one).

Why the hell don't I get the same results?? :crazy:
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coffeycup
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by coffeycup »

I'm using ASE2ASC114 fix.exe

Do you get the "Finished exporting of the imported 3d scene file! If you have....." message?
I don't get why it doesn't show in game for you. :suicide:
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Re: Sketchup mappy-making-ness...

Post by Deep_Blue »

Yes I get that message.

I'm using v.1.2.3

Can ya tell me where to get the version you have? (I think its before the fix that generates the extra materials.) Or can ya send me a copy of yours?

Says the post on devWAM:

"Main changes from 1.1.5 to 1.2.0:

- supports the porting and conversion of 'ambient'/'diffuse' colors to 'true color' setting in .mat files (if 'ambient' and 'diffuse' colors differ, a 'special_materials.txt' log file with the materials with that situation will be created, and no diffuse color will be applyed in this case, you will have to solve that by yourself, since carma2 only supports this to change the color of a texture)"

This is what's happening to my textures.
EDIT:

A-HA! I was right!

I went to CESM's site and d/led the only older version of ase2asc I could find (1.1.3) and ran the ase through it and when I opened the .asc in PT2 *I didn't* see any extra materials.

Haven't run it through PT2 yet. I'll letya know in a few how it goes.

EDIT AGAIN:

Success!!

I moved the files you made out of the track folder and ran the 1.1.3 version .asc file through PT2 and chucked the act, dat, and mat files ingame and finally got the same results you did.

It's the 1.2.3 version of ase2asc that was giving me trouble.

So, what's the deal on that pathmaker of yours? I'm curious 'cuz at the moment-I don't even know how to set the start grid. (dunno how to find the coords for it much less figure out paths). How do you do it?
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