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Wrestling with c1 cars

When the mayhem started! And its expansion pack made by interns!
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Spectre2011
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Spectre2011 »

Thanks, I'll see what I can do.

*EDIT*
Damn...I just edited the angular momentum, and the car grid image disappears
and the level refuses to start. what the hell?!, Should I post my car's text file, or would that be overkill?

*EDIT, again* actually I made the bounding box not pass the wheels before editing the angular momentum , only fitting the body, and thats when the engine to the game might of hiccuped.
Just for the record I'm using dos box, just incase that helps.
also here is my data for angular momentum. 0.2 ,0.3, 0.4 I tried to make it around the bounding box.
Last edited by Spectre2011 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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coffeycup
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by coffeycup »

zip up the whole folder not just text.
You probably fat-fingered something messing with the physics.
It's easy to mess up if you don't know what you're doing.

Why not just stick with the default CarEd generated physics for now?
Remember..baby steps..baby steps. One at a time.
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Spectre2011
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Spectre2011 »

Ok here it is, I hope they are up to date, if not I'll gladly fix that
I'm going to try the cared physics, and see what happens.

*edit*
When I use the cared generated text I get "fatal error, cant load independant resolution file.
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Spunky_v.1.rar
(36.73 KiB) Downloaded 104 times
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coffeycup
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by coffeycup »

Am at work right now, will look at tonight unless someone else does it first.

Usually that 'independant-resolution' error is when you screw up the OPPONENT.TXT if I remembers correctly.
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coffeycup
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by coffeycup »

Aw shit. I'm an idiot for telling you to use CarEd generated. I spaced out and forgot you were trying to get it into C1.

I'm having trouble trying to decrypt your TXT file.
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Spectre2011
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Spectre2011 »

coffeycup wrote:Aw shit. I'm an idiot for telling you to use CarEd generated. I spaced out and forgot you were trying to get it into C1.

I'm having trouble trying to decrypt your TXT file.
Dont sweat it, anyway here is a alternate txt file I borrowed from the regular eagle and tailored it to my car, I think I botched the physics engine with that first one so bad it broke the game.
also I think I figured out the problem...My tires are hitting the wheelwells so hard its jittering it up and down, messing with ride height might fix this right?

*edit*
I think I have the bbox and angular momentum fixed..
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SPUNKY.rar
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Toshiba-3
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Toshiba-3 »

Ok ok ok. The first real BIG problem is that you're working with C1 still encrypted.
Do yourself a favor and decrypt everything. It is the standard with C1 modding.

Secondly remove the crush datas and replace them with this:

Code: Select all

// CRUSH DATA
0.700000
0.050000,0.300000
0.050000
0.050000
0.000000
0.000000
0
// CRUSH DATA
0.450000
0.150000,0.400000
0.050000
0.050000
0.000000
0.000000
0
// CRUSH DATA
0.700000
0.050000,0.300000
0.050000
0.050000
0.000000
0.000000
0
Third: Material identifiers should be unique to your car. You have materials named FRONT, STOP, TYRE, etc. Try to put a unique prefix like so: SPK_FRNT.MAT, SPK_STOP.MAT, SPK_TYRE.MAT... Also try not to break the 8.3 naming format. Speaking of materials, I see you have one named WW. A little longer would be better, some situations in C1 and C2 might crash upon identifiers that are shorter than 4 characters. Also you seem to make use of simp_mat M39.MAT. In order for the game to use it correctly you must remove it manually from the .MAT file (via hex editing). The game will then load the default one from the REG folder. Using simp_mats when possible is a good idea btw.

Still about identifiers: the model identifiers. Especially the wheels. They are called FRWHEEL.DAT etc. Just like for C2. However C1 has a shared pool of models in memory. Only actors are kinda isolated per car. So if you load another addon car with the same problem (one of my first addons for example) in the same race as your addon car. Well the game will overwrite the wheel models with the ones from the latest loaded addon because they share the same model identifier. Resulting in them having the same wheels ingame.
You can change the model identifiers with Plaything2 by selecting the actor and hit SHIFT+G, and then making sure you only rename the model (untick actor renaming).

4th: "My tires are hitting the wheelwells" Nope. There's no collision between wheels and the rest of the car. They go through both visualy and for the physic calculations.
By the way, your car is a tad big and is hovering 10cm from the ground.

Currently, the bbox should be like this:
-0.172, 0.06, -0.37 // min x, min y, min z
0.172, 0.3, 0.382 // max x, max y, max z
0 // number of extra points v. 3

Keep the bbox a bit tidier than what the model looks like, or else it might result in frustrative collisions for the player. Your Z values were way off though. No need for additional points.
Y values for wheels in the mechanics can stay as 0.

The angular momentum should be much larger (your model is too large), like this:
0.35, 0.3, 0.95

5th: I know it's still wip but don't forget to change most values. Remove useless resources (esp. in mat/pix loading).
You should use TRixx to compile your PIX pack and not edit an existing one, the filename block lenghts are off.
Change stuff like wheel diameter, reflective material, center of mass, and overal physics (don't simply use the Eagle's ones, your car is very different from the Eagle).
Pixelmaps didn't load here. I didn't try to fix that and see where the problem was. But now that I'm writing this, I understand you probably edited an existing MAT file (and that explains why there was a simp_mat heh). Well don't do that. Simply use the MAT file generated by PT2 and add .PIX behind the filename entries.
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coffeycup
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by coffeycup »

First off, props to you Spectre for getting it this far. :beer:

Tosh is definitely the guy for C1 help. I haven't messed with C1 in a dog's age. But yeah, you can run the game with all the TXT decrypted, you don't need to encrypt it back.
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Spectre2011
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Spectre2011 »

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction, Toshiba.
Looks like I'll have to take a short break, then I'll do a major overhaul to that
escort.
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Deep_Blue
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Deep_Blue »

Sez Tosh:
"By the way, your car is a tad big and is hovering 10cm from the ground."

THAT'S what the hell I was trying to remember!

Tosh...That hovering causes all kinds of falling/bounciness, right?

Trying to remember one of my first C1 cars that did that.
***When I die may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline***
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Toshiba-3
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Toshiba-3 »

Well IMO, meshes being too big or hovering only has a visual impact ingame.
But if you don't set the physics up correctly in regard to these visual issues, yes it's going to bounce and look like it's having a seizure.

All this C1 activity lately really makes me want to put the C1 addon car tutorial in priority.
Especially trying to explain as clearly as possible the actor/model system and the differences between C1 and C2.

For those interested, this page explains a lot about all the aspects of actors within BRender:
https://rr2000.cwaboard.co.uk/R4/BRENDER/ ... #HEADING21
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Harmalarm
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Harmalarm »

Yes Tosh, I think that would be very useful. Even though I have wiggled my way through the 3d formats I am even having a hard time remembering the differences between the actor/model behavior of both games. I think a good tutorial will set things straight once and for all.
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coffeycup
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by coffeycup »

Yeah, I think I have forgotten whatever little I knew about C1.
Besides back then it was all about reskinning and modifying existing cars.

Getting a brand new addon car like Chrome God or HK Phooey was a big deal.

Ah such simple times it twas, sigh.
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Spectre2011
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Spectre2011 »

Hey is it ok if I just put this project on the back-burner, and switch to c2 for a little while?I'm somewhat a little better with editing c2.
Just working with what I've learned.
besides there is tons of tutorials for c2. is it a wise move?
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Alex Self A 9
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Alex Self A 9 »

Maybe so.

Add on cars are more common in Carmageddon 2.
CARMAGEDDON 1 ALL DA WAY!

YEEEEE-HAAAAAAWWWW
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coffeycup
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by coffeycup »

Sure why not? I always felt C2 was a little easier to modify any way.
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Mad_Maxine »

C2 is the best place to start, C1 is a pain in the ass in every way possible.

And the greatest thing about the comunity here is nobody will judge anything you do (unless you just convert stock cars from need for speed and fill the game with veyrooons and lambgeneys, then Ill have to stab you)
Everyone makes what they want, and as long as its your creation everything is apreciated.

Youll find its nice like that, Make a car someone dosent like? they might comment but you wont get that nasty 'This is a shit car why did you make it' replys. this aint no GTA comunity.

Go forth, Make C2 stuff!, cars, peds, drones, there all real simple... Only maps get a little complicated.
Enjoy and stuff!
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coffeycup
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by coffeycup »

Well, maps don't need to be complicated.
A small arena style with no smashables or noncars is pretty straight forward.
But anyway make whatever.

I sorta had a 'bucket list' of projects...
Make a car with moving suspension
make a car with smashable glass
do tank tracks
make a ped
etc. etc.
:banana:
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Mad_Maxine
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Mad_Maxine »

coffeycup wrote: Make a car with moving suspension
Ive only just masterd that I belive (well not masterd but I can make it work) I really think that adds a lot to cars, Everyone should ad suspension and funks and groves! Movin cars yo!
coffeycup wrote: make a car with smashable glass
Pain in the ass but possible. Mabye I should make a tutorial on that becaues It took me ages to figure out some thigns wich I dont think are fully explained... .Also must fix cared tutorial as some images have dissapeard for no aparent reson despite still being on image shack... It changed the link adress... WHY!?
coffeycup wrote: make a ped
I belive there is a tutorial on this and im too lazy to make one anyway, Stupid setting up limbs is an ass! .. Yeah my encoragement is to say everything sucks...
coffeycup wrote: do tank tracks
Image

Mabye we should all just get togeather and make a mega tutorial page for EVERYTHING! with pics, and easy to understand stuff!,

Make a car. Add suspension groves, funks, smashables,

Make a ped!

Then mabye map making? hell Knows I dident understand any of the map making tutorial.

Thred sucessfully hijacked.

EDIT: I just ruined the site banner.
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coffeycup
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by coffeycup »

You didn't ruin the banner. I think it's awesome. :lol:
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Toshiba-3
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Toshiba-3 »

IMO, you have less stuff to prepare for Carmageddon 1 than for Carmageddon 2 but it takes much more time if you want to do it correctly and want to avoid game constraints (like the palettes) destroying your work.

All in all, the fact you have to do pixelart with that shitty palette, setup actors manually (Harm's script can handle that from MAX), hex editing .MAT files and other stuff (the .DAT file if you want to avoid duplicated models), well it's time consuming even though the final product looks less complex than a C2 car.
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Spectre2011
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Spectre2011 »

Ok I'm back to c1 modding for now. ( sorry im bad at complex stuff in cared.)
I'm on my gramp's computer running the standalone c1/sp meld thing. (my cd has a corrupt file)
I'm going to try to figure out how to get photos to change to the c1 race/menu pallete.

as for that overhaul I mentioned, its gonna take a while, but I'll post my progress on the model...
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Spectre2011
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Spectre2011 »

Here's what I got so far, for low poly it took me 3 hours I think. is that normal?
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Yeah some triangles are off...
Yeah some triangles are off...
spunkvan.png (6.7 KiB) Viewed 6495 times
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timmy76
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by timmy76 »

That looks cool
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Spectre2011
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Spectre2011 »

Many thanks, I'm done with the model right now, I'm trying to learn how to really keep the data clean.
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Toshiba-3
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Toshiba-3 »

Nice progress indeed! Getting the hang of it it seems!
Still some triangulation issues here and there but nothing that textures won't be able to hide :slol:
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Spectre2011
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Spectre2011 »

I have a confession to make, apart from cared modelling, I don't know how to figure out whats needed for the technical stuff, I mean I have some, just some knowledge of how handle filenames, and I haven't scratched the surface of photo realistic texturing.

I could probably do it, but its gonna take me a while to understand c1 physics.

I'm not beating myself up over it, dont worry. I'm just being honest.

Off to coding school for me, heh.
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coffeycup
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by coffeycup »

Well, don't go getting all Oprah on us, we don't need heartfelt apologies. :wink:

You don't need to learn EVERYTHING all at once.
You can probably use the physics from another car for now.
Probably reuse a bunch of paperwork from a similar vehicle.

As far as texturing, that's why I tell people to start with reskinning an existing car as a first project.
You need to know how to do it anyways if you want to make your own cars.

Anyway, don't worry about how long anything takes etc.
Fuck around and have fun and hopefully you'll end up with something you can drive. :beer:
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Spectre2011
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Spectre2011 »

Thanks for the advice,
I should start modding for myself until I get really good.
thats the advice that I somehow remember from another post that was
a long time ago.
My last successful thing was a silly red car for c2, so I guess I should go back on that foundation
for the time being.
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Alex Self A 9
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Re: Wrestling with c1 cars

Post by Alex Self A 9 »

I'm going to go your path, Spectre, I should re-texture a car,
Or for Carmageddon 1 car making, You could make a Carmageddon 2 Car and follow Deep Blue's Carma 2 to Carma 1 Conversion, It's on Mac Carpocalypse. Wish you luck, Spec, I have Faith in you. :wink:
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