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Re: Dinosaurs!
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Harmalarm on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:41 pm
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Image

Wooot. Got a little bit of work done on the groundplane object. I'm slicing in all the detailed textures, and then keep reducing the mesh while I'm at it. I think these things are best done by hand. It just takes a little longer.

I will be dropping the objects back onto the mesh once it is done, because reducing the groundplane causes some objects to start floating...
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Razor on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:37 pm
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Wow, looks great.
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coffeycup on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:27 am
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Hee hee, wow! That thing is packed. Is that a static tour bus in the foreground? Are those docks in upper left?
My only concern is, at least on the section you're showing, the driveability.
Maybe some of those shipping containers need to be tipped to be used as a ramp?


Triceratops is in.
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I'm going to need to make a copy of 'cow_form.txt' and rename it 'dino_form.txt' or something. That's where you set the mass of the ped.
The cow is not heavy enough. Hitting the dinosaurs right now is like hitting helium filled ones.
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Harmalarm on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:09 am
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Quote:
My only concern is, at least on the section you're showing, the drive-ability.
Maybe some of those shipping containers need to be tipped to be used as a ramp?


True true, that comes after prepping the terrain. And those containers were indeed meant to become ramps. Just have to open the doors and voila!

I will probably be moving objects around the map, just to make things more interesting. Those docks could be set in a loop, so we can drive on them and get back on land safely with a jump in the mid section or something.
Also, the trees will probably have to be slimmed down, ore I will have to remove a couple. There are probably too many alpha channels in view this way.

So, still lots of work to do.

Coffey, that shot just shows the awesomeness of having that many different type of dinos in one map! Great work. And I didn't know the mass was set in the form files. Good to know!


Last edited by Harmalarm on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Toshiba-3 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:44 pm
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The N64 version would have sucked less if it had got such badass dinosaurs! Rawwrrr
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coffeycup on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:41 pm
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hehe, thanks Tosh.

Harm, since I am not that familiar with Trespasser, a screen from a 'ped's-eye' view would be interesting to see.

Yes, this alpha channel issue is going to haunt me too. I am really going to try to make as much foliage as I can without using alpha-channels.
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Pip the pest on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:49 pm
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Hi, A very early W.I.P :wink:

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Pip
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coffeycup on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:56 pm
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Nice! This is gonna be cool.
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coffeycup on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:23 pm
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The last of the dinosaurs
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Brachiosaurus.jpg
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I think this Brachiosaurus is the last one I had planned to do. I don't like how his hind legs meet the body, so will edit before I finish texturing.

That gives us:
Velociraptor
Stegosaurus
Triceratops
Gallimimus
Parasaurolophus
T-Rex
Brachiosaurus
Pterodactyl flying drone

That's a pretty good collection of specimens to inhabit an island, no? :smile:

The only thing I worry about with the Brachiosaurus is setting up the animation. Planned on using ELEPHANT moves. Like Harm said, by default it's already heavy and slow moving. The rearing up on hind legs would be nuts. The problem is unlike the COW (or DEER or TWOLF) there is no neck bone for the ELEPHANT. :sad:

That means I have to merge HEAD and long NECK into one. Or merge BODY and NECK and leave tiny HEAD to move? Too bad it isn't easier to make a new set on animations. This guy would be a good candidate. If neck were broken into multiple sections so it could gracefully arc would be nice. But this is Carmageddon after all, and we're used to out peds being quirky. :tongue:
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Pip the pest on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:24 pm
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Yes that Brachiosaurus on it's hind legs would be nuts, but fun :smile:

Here is how I am doing.

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coffeycup on Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:50 pm
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That looks great Pip. Nice polycount/distribution. :smile:

I will go with the ELEPHANT. I think the wolf and dog stand on their hind legs AND they have neck bones, but I don't want the Brach skipping around like a puppy.
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Dinogeddon? Carnageddon? Carmassic Park? Enough.
I don't dare make him much bigger than this. Which is accurate, just on the smaller end of the range.

Try to get it in game today, and then I can think of nothing but tropical islands....and being stalked by 20 ft tall predators. :lol:

Update: Elephant moves are perfect.
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Pip the pest on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:52 pm
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Brachiosaurus looks great in game Coffey :smile:

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coffeycup on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:34 pm
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Wow. Exterior looks done. I see you've done your research. The antennae is a nice touch.
That yellow bkg is is something else. :banana:
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Toshiba-3 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:48 pm
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That brachiosaurus looks impressive! Can't wait to test it ingame!
The JP Jeep is coming along nicely as well :sbsmile:
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Pip the pest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:37 am
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Image
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Harmalarm on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:59 am
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Sweet! The interior is also quite specific for this one, at least the dashboard is. I did a little research for this myself, for the low poly model.

I hope to do some more work on my trespasser map tonight!
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Pip the pest on Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:35 pm
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Image
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Harmalarm on Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:21 pm
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haha, cool. Nice to see you showing some actual WIP shots of the modelling process btw! I like where this thing is going
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Harmalarm on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:28 pm
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Image

I finished optimising the terrain. All unnecessary objects, like guns, lower vegetation and other small interior stuff has been removed. I will now continue modifying the map to make it more driveable and interesting for carmageddon 2. Probably a lot of trees still have to go, and boxes move and stuff like that. The number of bitmaps is another thing I will have to worry about, but so far the whole map has been greatly optimised for C2! :cool:

Also, doesn't that ferry fit perfectly in you map coffeycup? I can send the seperate model to you if you like.
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coffeycup on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:26 am
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Wowee wow wow.
This is going to be a cool map to drive. I don't mind having to dodge around/under/over obstacles as long as there's a way to work your way around the map. Is the entire island in this map?

Will stuff like small crates and rusted wrecks be setup as noncars?

And yeah send me that ferry. I'll use it somehow, if not as a platform then tied up at a dock or washed up on a beach.
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Mad_Maxine on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:26 am
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Looks awsome now, Is that all rendering type shaddows or will we see those ingame? anyway some fine work coming from all of yous, Cant wait to get ahold of all this stuff,

Howd you do that coffey? I posted before ya got here o.o
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Wheels Outside All Shapes
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coffeycup on Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:05 am
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Pip, I meant to say that interior is looking cool. I guess no driver needed, ha! Any passengers?

I started roughing out a Visitor Center. Using the security display for reference. I think I made it a little small but I can scale it up later.
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I will probably make the front door wide enough for an Eagle to drive through. I think you need to at least be able to smash an exhibit in the lobby. :twisted:
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Harmalarm on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:13 am
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coffeycup wrote:
...Is the entire island in this map?...


Nope, the map was cut into pieces for the original game. This is just a small part of the map, but I think one of the coolest. You can see that mountain range in the background there. Don't think we will see it in game though, because I will need the YON distance to hide a part of the map. Otherwise C2 will go berserk :supercrazy:

coffeycup wrote:
...Will stuff like small crates and rusted wrecks be setup as noncars?...


But off course my dear Coffey, what did you expect from me? :lol: I am also thinking of making those gates operational as hinged noncars, so you can smash them open. Oil drum barrels will become explosive powerups.

I will pack up the ferry and send it your way asap.

Clever thinking using that monitor screen as reference of the visitors center. Would be cool to drive in the interior hallway and be able to smash the hell out of those T-rex bones... :)
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coffeycup on Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:25 pm
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Harmalarm wrote:
Nope, the map was cut into pieces for the original game. This is just a small part of the map, but I think one of the coolest. You can see that mountain range in the background there. Don't think we will see it in game though, because I will need the YON distance to hide a part of the map. Otherwise C2 will go berserk
Ok, got it. A thick misty fog would look nice. Does that mountain road loop back down? I like all the details and plenty of places for PowerUps to be tucked away like in warehouses and out on a dock.


Harmalarm wrote:
But off course my dear Coffey, what did you expect from me? I am also thinking of making those gates operational as hinged noncars, so you can smash them open. Oil drum barrels will become explosive powerups.
I figured so, but wanted to check :wink: Yes, having interactive elements would be great, doors and gates that open. Other stuff in the back of my head, that I haven't thought through completely: A switch on road to trigger avalanche. Destroyable suspended rope bridge.


Harmalarm wrote:
Clever thinking using that monitor screen as reference of the visitors center. Would be cool to drive in the interior hallway and be able to smash the hell out of those T-rex bones... :)
Yep, we are thinking the same thing re T-Rex bones! Ha!

If you google the Visitor Center you get a bunch of images of various people's idea of what it looks like. They are all vastly different. I figure the screen cap from the movie, even if it's not 100% accurate, is the closest. If Spielberg thought it was good enough, then I guess I do too. :oops:
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Pip the pest on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:15 pm
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Image
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coffeycup on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:14 pm
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Woah, looks like you're packing some detail into those heads. :cool:

Oh, you guys've have probably seen this before, but I hadn't.

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Toshiba-3 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:31 pm
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Harmalarm: Isn't there really any way we could somehow come up with an alpha-free approach of noncar trees? If it's all about perception, could transparency be replaced by dark green or something that would fade with the decor? It's really too bad we can't really have a good forest because of transparency taking too much onscreen space too quickly. We should have a good look on the net and see what's already been done toward this.

About the YON value, maybe you can take advantage of the YON multiplier at the end of the track text file? Reducing default drawing distance to 30% of it. That would equal a 12 YON value for people playing with the original YON, 30 for those at 100 etc.
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Harmalarm on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:07 pm
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Toshiba-3 wrote:
Isn't there really any way we could somehow come up with an alpha-free approach of noncar trees?


We still have the wire rendering method that could work in some way for bushes. Trees can be made without alpha map, but I just think it would look shitty. I don't know really. At least I have no ideas at the moment.

And about the yon; Yes I think that is the best approach.
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coffeycup on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:16 pm
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Yeah, I don't know really either re alphas. I was going to suggest a different 'leaf' texture too.

I like how the Trespasser map is looking now, the only criticism would be that the trees don't look tropical. More like evergreens. I usually think of jungle stuff having big, broad leaves. That's not much help I know. :crazy:

Edit: I have been working on this JP Visitor Center. Mostly doing research watching stuff on YouTube. My cable company had Jurassic Park available on demand a week or two ago and I watched it. I went back to re-watch parts and it was gone. I guess it was for a limited time. So I ordered a copy of the DVD which should be here tomorrow. :smile:
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TTR on Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:13 pm
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Great work here men! I totally dig that (i was into dinosaurs too when JP hit the theaters).
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Toshiba-3 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:42 pm
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I know these aren't proper good examples, but they are interesting:

1. In this case, the mesh is clearly sufficient, apply a photorealistic texture on the leaves and you're good to go.
2. I prefer this mesh (untextured), but it should be harder to give it the right foliage feeling without use of transparency.
3. Not really applicable in the case of a realistic design, but that concept is still interesting esp. for C1.
4. This is what I find the most interesting, the faceted look clearly adds something to the foliage shape and I could see it make a difference ingame. But still a good texture approach is still required.

Aaand none of this would apply for a pine tree :spissd:
I suppose it should be possible to make something that looks good with wireframe+gradient textures, but the polycount of such an object would skyrocket.
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Harmalarm on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:27 pm
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Well I did make this tree once. (which now turns out I have freaking lost! :mad: ) It had 3 leaf triangles, and performed very well ingame.

Image

As you can see I had quite a number of them in view, and the game didn'show me any errors. Not even drawing order errors. (you know, that the hind tree seems to show up in front)

I still have the texture of the leaves. 1 texture for all three triangles seemed to work pretty well. There is even more room in that texture for more leaf variation;
http://carmatools.harmsollie.nl/images/pinetree.tif
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Toshiba-3 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:38 pm
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When we discussed the onscreen transparency overflow issue with C2S, what was our conclusion?
Can't seem to find the thread. Or maybe I actually read a discussion on polycount. I'm all confused.

I was under the impression that what was problematic was the amount of alpha channels overlaying one another onscreen and the onscreen surface they use.

If actually reducing the amount of polys textured with transparency reduces the damn bug, then go for it?! Maybe you can start by testing with the current model and if it fails, you can swap the model with something else and all the instances will be updated, right? :)
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coffeycup on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:08 pm
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Tosh, I like some of those low poly tree examples. Especially the broad leaf ones. I think using a lot of that type of plant with variations of leaf width would really give it the jungle feeling.

I think the 'crumpled' mass of leaves would work great filling in voids and save the leafy details for the high visibiilty areas.

Visitor Center progress
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I guess I need to work on the steps and waterfall next. My JP DVD arrived today, yay! Tonight I'm watching it. I had started doing some of the interior of the visitor center, trying to add a couple of rooms, and can't find any specifics of the room layout other than fan generated art.

I don't want to be a slave to trying to reproduce every detail, but I do want something that is at least believable without sacrificing the gameplay.
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coffeycup on Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:41 pm
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I'm sorry, but I have got to post this. I had no idea that the raptors in the kitchen
were guys in suits. I always figured it was CGI.


I love animatronics, robots and puppets and they really nailed it with these suits.:shock:
You could give someone a heart attack with these things.
So I guess using the biped animation on our raptor wasn't such a bad idea at all. :grin:
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