evey talks about WAR

[Buzz]

Im not racist you moron he was talking to elendal, and nothing he said was racist. Torture, rape, and murder are savage... and its a know fact that the Iraqi gov. does those things...

[KSkins]

Whata hell happend here?? Why someone write that kind of fasist stuff in an international board? Eledal you go to far. Its ugly that someone think that kind of stuff, but writing it makes me sick.

The world biggest human holocaust is in fact the "colonization" of Europe over the "new continent". Only between 1492 and 1500 The spanish kill 10 millions.

Notice i´m trying to te nice and no using bad words, but I will help Mr Kicker to punch you.

y AGUANTE EL CHE GUEVARA!!!!

[kicker_of_elves]

"and nothing he said was racist."

i took the phrase "the white man shows the savage...etc. etc." to be racist. it was, and you can't try to cover up the ignorance of that statement by attributing brutal behavior with savagery. it IS a savage BEHAVIOR, but "the white man showing the savages how to live" is not addressing the brutality of saddam hussein's corrupt and brutal regime, it is attributing "racial" superiority to the western, particularly north american, forces and government policy. which is utter bullshit.

skins, che es un person political de muy importante para mi, y para argentina! viva la revelution!

[DeathChamberNo9]

I understand where you're coming from there kicker, but they are just words that you happened to take offense to. its not really his problem that you were offended with his choice of words. If it was face to face, I would commend a swift kick to the nuts but its free speech over the internet.

I dont get offended when some stupid mother fucker calls me a faggot, because that happens quite often seeing as half of american children (ok, i'm exagerating) are being brought up with no respect for anyone. So my advice to you is to get over the fact that some people are just ignorant pricks, and try not to get offended by anything but forms of physical action.

I mean shit, I could get pissed at people when they diss potatoes seeing as how i'm irish and a ton of my people died in that famon (sp?) but I dont. That and the fact that irish people used to be treated like stuff found on the bottom of a farmers boot. Everyone puts up with shit every day, and getting pissed of at something someone said shouldn't be part of it. Don't get me wrong, that kid is a proud owner of some worthless grey matter , but log onto an Aim chat, (metallica) and you'll be up to your neck in racist pigfuckers.

basically... dont get pissed off at racial slurs.

get pissed off over fat rednecks in white sheets walking through your town praising jesus, even though he wasnt white.

if none of this means anything to you, then ignore it.

[PumaY2K]

...I especially hate it when the US goes in and leaves a job half done (Gulf War I)

I know this reply comes in a bit late... but nevermind... this comment is brilliant... that war was never finished with complete success...

[Deep_Blue]

Um, I'm not religious. Period. All's I'm saying is that back in '01 we Americans discovered that two oceans will not separate us from what goes on all the time in the rest of the world. There may come a day again when the bastards are breaking down our front doors and killing people we care about and trying to change the way you and I live. Then I reckon the 'kumbaya'ers' and the debaters and all the moral equivocators will suddenly be screaming bloody murder and then complaining about "why didn't somebody do something sooner?!"

This IS "Next Time"-and it has nothing to do with religion or ethnocentrism. This shit is all about cleaning bugs outta the house with a healthy side order of revenge.

[Deep_Blue]

I understand Kskins, the world needs more people that think like you. The other side is-the world also needs people that think quite the opposite to defend the people who think like you.

We may all get along eventually. It would be nice, but it's the fanatical crazies who keep making things difficult in getting there.

Y'know kicker and DC9-I got the distinct impression that elendal was being SARCASTIC-NOT RACIST right from the get-go.

I understand that there are some trigger(ah! Shit! I didn't offend anybody by saying 'trigger' did I????) words that piss people of different races and religions off, but I didn't get the impression that elendal was being anything other than sarcastic.

ROTFLMAO! Listen to yaself, kicker...heh...You don't wanna have nuthin' to do with no goddamn wars but you sure all fired up and gonna kick somebody's ass you haven't even met on this board, huh? Who's the warrior now?

That is like carrying a sign that says "MAKE BOMBS, NOT WAR!"

Heh, almost as funny as saying "I'm against war but I'll kick yer ass if you diss me".

[elendal]

<quote>

i better take back some strong words...i recind my threats of physical violence, kinda over reacted there, but you are still a racist fuck.

i am souix, and the american policy towards "savages" has been 1)extermination 2)cultural destruction 3)land theft 4)policy bound blood quantum definitions to ensure legislative extinction. you can see why i get defensive of racist statements. "savages" is an enthocentric determinist and social darwinist term that has no validity.

</quote>

Yes sorry for that words but it look like they describe well what the US is trying todo.

I'm not trying to be racist and i dont support US actions.

[KSkins]

Well the conflict already started, and exactly as I expected, the stock went up, every one buy anti- gas mask and all kind of stuff for the paranoid.

But I´m not sure what should scare me, the ones developing the nuke, or the guy that already have them and already use them on civilians.

Some people in the US says "yes destroy them..." and they never have seen the consecuenses of the war. Not only the deaths, the mines, the biuldings, olso of the consecuencies of the Uranium of some guns, that produces cancer and lots of problems to the people living there.

By the way, don´t forget we are talking about Bagdad, one of the oldest cities in the world, long time before romans, english... So if they don´t have a Mc Donlands in every corner, does not make them less "civilizated" (of course I don´t like "McWastefood")

[PumaY2K]

...So if they don´t have a Mc Donlands in every corner, does not make them less "civilizated"...

No... it matters not to have or not to have a McDonald's in every corner... Iraq is extremely less civilizated than many countries. Some examples:

Firstly, it's a militarized country that treates women like animals, just to fuck them and have descendance... yeah... very civilizated thing...

Almost 50% of the population is analphabet people...

The goverment of Iraq don't let specific sources (TV, Radio, etc.) to inform their population.

People don't have access to medicaments and only has a little ration of food.

6 year old kids... do you know what they do? play with his friends? go to school? HA!... they are ordered to get a fuckin weapon, get trained on how to use it and how to kill americans.

Damn well civilized country, right? ...also, how about religion?

people can't choose any creed except the one they are told to believe in...

And I could mention more but I'm kinda tired today

[Mad Max RW]

Puma, those are all the reasons why negotiating with these people NEVER WORKS. But for some reason all the peace loving idiots can't seem to get that through their thick stupid skulls.

[Takeshi666]

I think I'll draw a really fat pig dressed up as Uncle Sam and his pet dog wearing a tie with the Union Jack on it, attacking squirrels wearing tunics and wielding bazookas.

What is it with the Islam fundementalists, anyway? Why do they hate the western culture so much? because they try to convert everyone into moslems? Most probably, but what if that isn't the reason after all?

Moslems should all be killed, they cause nothing but trouble. Same applies to christians, jewish...hell, let's kill EVERYONE!

[Buzz]

I've hardley head the antiwar people talk about any real issues involeing the war, all they can seem to talk about is oil and the past....

[KSkins]

I think these have seen to many movies of James Bond. With the same concept, every American is a member of the KKK?? HELL, NO not every people is such an idiot.

And why are so angry againt the rest of the world? Maybe because they recieve attacks, and they are HUNGRY. You will never understand who people can act when they really hungry. I mean not eat well NEVER. my theory is people will be less violent if they live fine. Irakis have a horrible way of life, but became even more since `91.

[C2 Scientist]

They seem to have enough $$$ to build all those nice palaces for Saddam and make statues of Saddam, now don't they? So they probably have eaten well too?

(And no, I'm not stupid, this was *sarcastic* reply, I do know who in Iraq comes first)

Oh and Max, yeah, to negotiate with Saddam is like holding a piece of soap with wet hands. (?!?) Simply put, it's like chatting with the leader of the liars' club?

Hm, I *could* also mention how stupid the people objecting to the eliminating of Saddam are, but then I might hurt someone, so I won't.

[kicker_of_elves]

yeah, i clearly over reacted to a sarcastic comment. sorry 'bout that. but the thing is that words such as "white man" "savage" really set me off. i have encountered noting but ignorance regarding american views towards the native american. the policies regarding their treatment are focused around either the "noble savage" fallacy or the "uneducated alcoholic savage", and a great many white americans think that natives are a bunch of lazy drunks with no motivation. if you had your culture/children systematically killed or rendered useless by the government, your land taken away, your way of life destroyed, yeah....it would take the wind out of your sails. read the book "BOARDING SCHOOL SEASONS", you'll be sickened.

i guess when i feel like my friends are dying for a country that has really never given a damn about me, yeah, i get pissed. ask the poor, the dispossessed, the discriminated against, and the answer is the same. fuck iraq, worry about the problems right here. we have starvation, malnutrition, rampant alcoholism, drug abuse, corrupt cops, corrupt politicians, a sex-starved culture, objectification of women, institutionalized racism....and we're worried about a bunch of bedoins halfa world away.

i see i've been demoted to one star....i'll never make threats again, mr. admin....really.

[Kruszchev]

originaly posted by Buzz

Im not racist you moron he was talking to elendal, and nothing he said was racist.

sorry... dont ower reackt... thougth he meant you cuz on his post its a "reply to Buzz" not to elendal...

as i said on the post (well maby not in exact words, but iwas slightly comfused) i wasnt realy sure of what the deal was about... Sorry for the miss understanding Buzz, and that gotta be the second time ya call me a moron in this thread... can ya stop doing that

[KSkins]

"... worry about the problems right here. we have starvation, malnutrition, rampant alcoholism, drug abuse, corrupt cops, corrupt politicians, a sex-starved culture, objectification of women, institutionalized racism....and we're worried about a bunch of bedoins halfa world away."

You are totally right, I have a theory for that. Some people learned from the past, that every great civilization was destroy by internal problem, and not from external attacks. US allways need some enemy to mantain the hegemony. The wars allways activates patriotics feelings, and every one forget that 15 year boys can buy a gun and kill his teacher for no reason.

What I hate most about this war is the media.

"The war in Prime Time; 2nd season of 48 on FOX; See "The lord of the rigs; the wars starts at 8:00!!"

[Buzz]

sorry your not a moron, im just to lazy to type long replys so i call people names...

[Kruszchev]

that gotta be the laziest explenation ever

[Deep_Blue]

Heh.... Kruszchev-Ya never fail to crack my shit up

Buncha very good points there guys. I especially like this one...:

Originally posted by Kskins:

I think these have seen to many movies of James Bond. With the same concept, every American is a member of the KKK?? HELL, NO not every people is such an idiot.

And why are so angry againt the rest of the world? Maybe because they recieve attacks, and they are HUNGRY. You will never understand who people can act when they really hungry. I mean not eat well NEVER. my theory is people will be less violent if they live fine. Irakis have a horrible way of life, but became even more since `91.

Now that there says it all.

They receive attacks and they are hungry because of their asshole leaders who oppress them and threaten them and make them live in total fear. And their leaders keep any wealth they accumulate for them selves and only the bare minimum goes to the people and usually by accident. Yes Kskins, I DO know what desperate, hungry people can do-I have been that hungry myself.

Y'all know what? I got the news on in fronta me and I just saw an Iraqi guy prolly about my age, mebbe younger ('cause livin' hard can make ya old fast) dancing and singing joyously and waving his fist in the air-his words translated were to the effect of "Saddam, your days are numbered!"

And just in case I was still wondering how the Iraqis were responding to all this going on, a marine was tearing down a poster of Saddam and an old Iraqi guy walks up to it and commences to beating on Saddam's nose with his shoe and (I guess) cussing at the part of Saddam's face that was left while calling the marine a real man.

That sounds to me like they like the idea of being free.

At least the Iraqis I saw did, apparently.

I especially liked the part where the marine had taken down the Iraqi flag and raised the American flag and Marine flag in it's place-His commanding officer made hime replace the Iraqi flag (as is only right) telling him: "This is a war of liberation, not occupation, son."

True, the Americans will have to occupy Iraq for awhile, but the place belongs to the Iraqis.

As I understand it, their oil wealth that only Saddam has been able to experience the benefits of will be used to rebuild Iraq after the war and for those of you who believe the U.S. is only fighting to take Iraqi oil, Dubyah has already made it clear that it belongs to the Iraqi people. The U.S. has no intention of depriving them of any of it.

(I personally think that with upgraded equipment and shipping technology, they could actually move more of it out of Iraq, eventually driving the prices we all pay at the pumps down.).

Other than powdering SoDam Insane's palaces and military installations and wiping out few uncooperative shitheads, I still don't see the bad side of the war yet other than the fact that some personnel have died. They knew there was that chance when they volunteered. Doesn't make it better but it makes it honorable.(And before you pacifists start beheading me, Honor means a lot to a soldier, believe me. Unless you've been a soldier-you can't possibly have any idea what it means to one to live, fight and die honorably.).

Every soldier knows what can happen-it's an occupational hazard, but they go into harm's way anyway because they believe it is right to do so others may not have to.

They made the ultimate sacrifice.

They will not be forgotten.

OH, btw, kicker, I'm half Tuscarora-(Mom's side).

[KSkins]

Well, first of all I don´t think that launch 1000 missiles, using 250000 soldier... sounds like hunting a fly with a shotgun. All that satellite tecnology, GPS, etc and they can´t catch a man?

By the way: Iraki is not the only country with problems, some very democratic, who obey orders from the IMF and they are more and more poor every day. So in the end thing will be the same for irakis but you wont heard nothing about them on the news. My country is a huge example of that. But instead of blame a dictator, they blame corruption. Now we are un economical default, but in the `90 do exactly what they order.

In my opinion there is something bigger with this attacks to Irak. I´m not sure what it is.

[Kruszchev]

Originaly posted by Deep Blue

Heh.... Kruszchev-Ya never fail to crack my shit up

hmm, ive noted one thing, i have a problem understanding those kind of "comments" .... so what does that mean

[kicker_of_elves]

i think he likes you in that "special way" krus... lol j/k.

__________________________________

"(And before you pacifists start beheading me, Honor means a lot to a soldier, believe me. Unless you've been a soldier-you can't possibly have any idea what it means to one to live, fight and die honorably.)"

__________________________________

i see your point, homes, and i raise you this one. soldier's honor and a pacifist's honor are still versed in the same rhetoric concerning duty to country and humanity, they are only versed differently. there are cowardly soldiers as well as cowardly pacifists. those who sat behind a clerks desk in the states during wartime and then pound their fists telling war stories and how the commies, chinks, reds, slants, krauts, etc. should be all sent home or killed. there are protesting whining vegan sandal wearing peaceniks who have no clear ideas of any alternative other than war should work, and would run to canada out of fear, not an absolute resolve not to fight at any cost.

then there are the soldiers who saw the shit, and are some of the most meek and humble quiet loving souls a person can meet, and the anti-war peace worker in palestine the other day who lay down in front of a bulldozer and it proceeded to run over her, back up, run over her again, and dump dirt on her. (incidentally, it was an american killed by an israeli occupying force...where the fuck are our priorities?!!?! )

the point being that honor is expressed differently, but is more understood by opposing fronts than you seemed to indicate. i could be interpreting it wrong, though.

megwitch, besquindem.

[Buzz]

i dont know about you, but if a bulldozer was about to run me over i would move, Kruszchev that means you made him laugh

[KSkins]

I´m pretty sure what´s going to happend in Irak, because it isn´t the first country. Look the process in Russia, Ecuador, and Argentina:

After kicking away some very tiranic guy, they put in the goverment some very nice, democratic puppet. Of course, this new guys will need some money co reactivate the economy, so the IMF give them a few bucks. But that money isn´t enough to solve all the problems, So the IMF suggest "sell some companies, like oil, communications, energy to private companies". So Companies like Telefonica, Repsol (oh what a surprise, they are from Spain!! where the president want to attack Irak, no matter if 95% of population is against) but they sell them in a very low value. At this point They must pay the interest of the loans, so they use all the new cash. So the country stills poor, and they ask for more loans, and they receive money just to pay the usury. By the way the new private companies have a monopoly, so they charge whatever they want. Many people emigrate to other country to find a better way of life, but they end doing pathetic jobs in the same countries that wins tons of money with the natural resources of others.

Like I said before, the CNN will NOT show the hunger and the anger, unless is good to promote how bad is the situation provoque by the corruption, and tell is bad to travel over there.

Well, this kind of stuff already happend, and will happend in Irak.

[elendal]

Imagine this.

Most of the terrorist who where involved in WTC attack where from Sauidi Arabia, who is US main partner in region, plus their official religion is fundamental islam, plus they have biggest oil resouces in the world, plus they are biggest exporters of the oil. So after Bush will create a replacement for Saudi in Iraq ( fix the old oil plants etc.. ) you know what will happen.

[elendal]

Could not they just send 1 sniper to Iraq and kill bad guy if all they whant is to liberate Iraqi ppl?

[Buzz]

no, its illegal in peace time...

[PumaY2K]

Saddam Hussein has got at least 3 or 4 identical persons that show up at different times... you never know if it is Saddam or one of this guys...

[Kruszchev]

3 or 4 peps... only, rather make it a army...

[KSkins]

Do you heard about "Carlos"???? in the `70 there was a rumor that a guy know as Carlos was the biggest delicuent, dealer in the world. All polices invetigators start a search. They have sckechts of his face and all that...

In the end they have to admit it just was an urban leyend.

Maybe Bin Laden is just a fairy tale.

[Buzz]

that has to be the dumbest thing i've ever heard

[Kruszchev]

if Bin lady is a roumur... who the hell is that ugly ol man whit meter long beard talking in arabian, saying that he is the one who ordered the 11sept thingie... Cuz i still belive it DID occure... do you

[Deep_Blue]

Yeah, Kruszchev, I meant up there in my other post that ya always make me laugh. Ya got a 'sideways' way of looking at stuff that is sometimes humorous, and when you combine that with somewhat broken english it can be funny as hell

Kicker and (somebody else-I fergit who)-some good points- I know a lot of guys that served in Vietnam who won't talk about their experiences there. Meek and mild as you say.

The protester you mentioned can be looked at in more than one way.

One view is that she died honorably doing what she believed in, the other way to look at it is that she was a dumbass who didn't have the common sense to get the fuck outta the way-like she honestly believed that her face would stop a multi-ton bulldozer. Like those idiots who volunteered to be human shields in Iraq and then canceled their trip for their safety-DOH! (Darwinism at work) I mean...I understand the Israelis don't screw around when it comes to their missions. I think that if American airport security had been more like it is in Israel, mebbe 9/11 wouldn't have been able to happen. We were fat, dumb and happy and we learned the hard way.

Kskins, I see what you mean and I see a lot of others are wondering as well why is the U.S. doing this in Iraq when other countries are just as bad off?

I guess none of these other countries are loose cannons with weapons of mass destruction (although I haven't seen much evidence of them in Iraq either except for some derelict old scuds).

North Korea IS, however a loose cannon with friggin' nukes... I sure hope dubyah is only telling them "Stand by folks, when we're done kickin' this guy's ass, we're comin' for you next".

Mebbe we shoulda gone there first....Dubyah says he wants to handle that one diplomatically-I guess that option had run out with Saddam first.

This is the part of the game I don't clearly understand yet...the order of things..doesn't seem right.