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Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

Text generator - switched on ... "Ha! This program has performed an illegal operation and will be closed! Bet you didn't expect that, you cheater - write your own text, I'm getting out of here!!!" So, you can't trust even your own programs...

Future of intelligent computers? Nah. Anyway, let's get into business, if I got anything important to say...

Ok, I'll try that SDF-importing later again, when I start to import the objects. (I just made one quick test, that really doesn't tell the whole truth, so I should get more reliable results when I try with many objects)

Ok, I didn't understand your opponent definer, but I just got an idea, which, I think, could be quite fast: A simple small cube, that we could move with keyboard. (forward, backward, turn, raise up/down, maybe even strafe to sides) Then we would cruise around the track (like with a car, and the camera would follow), and when it is in the correct position, we would hit some shortcut key to copy the coordinates. (Either in the clipboard, or maybe even to the textfile, if we told it the textfile's name and location, and the line of the nodes in that textfile) Would that be possible, or do you have something even faster in your mind...?

Of course that would mean that you would have to make some keys to move that cube... and there are too much keys in use already, unless you make something which switches the commands of shortcuts. For example, the cursor keys would be first used for camera movement, and when you hit some button, they would be used for object moving or rotating. I don't know if that's possible, but it would be good to use the same keys to different commands.

A shop? Good idea, maybe the players could buy more ride height to the cars, especially for race cars, since they always seem to be glued to the road! (Yes, I know why! They are race cars, and not meant for off-roading) Could we buy power-ups too? Not solid-granite car, because you can't control that, but something like opponent repulsificator or pedestrian annihilator. The macro could write the cheat code of the power-up, but there is one problem: How to delay the macro so, that it would activate when the race starts? (Unless you can do it some other way)

If you don't know about 'Shapeshifter', go to their site and read about it: Click on 'Our technology' (www.stainlessgames.com/) I recommend that, it's interesting reading!

So you made a hingable door with bounding shapes, that's how I thought we could make trailers for cars. (The trailer would be a detachable part, but it would get stuck to the car because of the hinge's bounding shapes) Now I'm interested how did you make the bounding shapes with gaps. I made those bounding shapes for the truck, and I couldn't make gaps, so I had to use four shapes with 8 points in each one to make a space in the middle of the truck. Did you do that with four shapes too? OR did you make the gaps as solid objects (part of the track), while the door's hinges would have a simple 8 point shape? That sounds simple enough, I think

Hmm, you DON'T seem to be talking about WORLD_HINGE_JOINT, but you mean the WORLD_BALL_JOINT. World ball joint just isn't good for doors or gates, because of just one hinge, it was used for the magnet ball. I understand it's difficult to figure out the values of WORLD_HINGE_JOINT, because it wasn't used in any noncar. Oh well, it doesn't matter if I can't make doors with those keywords, I'll either use the bounding shape hinges, or I make the doors with that 'bend angle before snapping'. (And centre of mass when attached is put to the position of the hinge) But I think I could use that WORLD_BALL_JOINT, if there was the floor right below and ceiling right above the door, to prevent it from swinging up and down, which certainly wouldn't look realistic!

So if grooves are used for noncars, the collisions work properly? Good, but if you make a noncar of a house, there's too much bounding shapes to define. (Ok, I'll forget the house, it's not important)

Hehe, moving clouds! Now, remember, that the collision shape still remain in the cloud's starting position. (Where it is in PT2) At least it remained there with that spinning house. Weather effects, if I have to make them of transparent textures, with flat sheets everywhere, I guess I'll forget it because I'm planning to make too big tracks for that.

You're planning to make buildings blow into pieces? That was used in the oil blowing mission. And actually in the nuke mission too: when you blowed up that yellow gas cylinder, the huge barrier disappeared and you could drive further. It was made so, that when the cylinder exploded, it 'created' force of '1001' to surround the barrier, and the barrier destroyed, because its threshold was only '1000'. (Just under the created force) And the threshold '1000' was too much for the normal cars, so you couldn't smash the barrier. EXPECT if you put the car's mass into 1500 tons (!), then you can smash it by driving into it with 50 mph. (I've tried!) So you can create a force to anywhere in the track to remove, for example, those barriers. (Even switches can create that force, like in the oil blow mission, so you can make switches to open doors to secret areas. I've been planning to make that!)

If you make blowing parked cars, I bet you can't move them! They are like the petrol pumps, right?

About that opponent locked into some room: Are you sure it won't teleport out of there on it's own? Because the opponents seem to teleport in the track every now and then.

I've noticed that airport bug too. How would you use that possibility?

And that WAV-file might be very big by its file size...which isn't good for downloading. Otherwise it could be a good idea.

This was it for now. If I come up with something new, I'll add them in this topic. Until then, I'll discuss of the current things.
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by cesm20 »

to all :

unfortunally i have a bad new : i haved to remove the macros that maximize each one of the individual sub-windows of plaything2 by a keyboard shortcout to each one (see the menu option VIEW in plaything2 build3 to see which features will not work anymore). Later i give more details of why i have done that.

to chris :

yes its possible to bring back the cops from carma1 (the only difference is their AI which is the same as a normal opponent), as specific opponents like in the missions "TRUCKING HELL" and "THE BRUISE BROTHERS". Hey, if you like those cops from carma1, didn't you liked that mission "THE BRUISE BROTHERS" ? Unfortunally in carma2 only that kind of cops it's possible but it's possible to put them on other tracks without interfering with the normal opponents, it's that you want ? Because it's impossible to use the same AI that the cops from carma1 haved.

to lumberjack :

Oh, indeed it's better now. I am happy you liked it, maybe next time i put some little flowers also ?!?!? Just kidding...

Hum, yes it's true that now they release Automate pro 5 instead of the old 4. But believe me, the most noticeable feature i have saw between the 5 and the 4 version, it's the GUI ... That thing that only Macro Express have (the scope feature which lets macros to ONLY run inside a certain window or program) Automate 5 still doesn't have, so it's not worth download Automate pro 5 because it's bigger than the old 4 version. Here is the link to the version i use :

AUTOMATE 4.5n TRIAL : http://hercules.unisyn.com/downloads/pr ... te4.5n.exe

MACRO EXPRESS 3.0d : www.macros.com (now you can download the new version 3.0e)

For other people that may be reading this i hope they remenber those are the two macro programs required by my modification of Plaything2.

Lumberjack, you still have to have a serial number to register both programs, but i think i can't write it here, so you will have to get it yourself... if you can't a crack, email me.

About macro express, if it said "corrupt file" i recommend using a download manager, i never use the internet explorer to download files because almost all the times never download the file completly and worse, it says that the download is complete even if it is half downloaded !

Yes, if we use the two options on the same object it won't work. But he can use the same object if he uses one of the importers, then restart plaything2 and open the same object with the other option, this way the difference is noticeable.

Well, that kind of buying car pieces is very complicated to explain here right now, specially because i can't explain that correctly on english, only in my native language, but don't worry i will explain how that work when i start to work on it, because i am not 100% sure if it is possible but i haven't saw yet any major limitation.

Well, maybe 3d clouds isn't a good idea, don't forget the drawing distance... it's not high enough to see the clouds in the sky, and i can't put the clouds so low (with the maximum drawing distance in the carma2 menus, and above about 70 the game crash if opponents recover... does this happend with you ?), i prefer to use the idea of the spherical sky, but i will tell more details later.

About the 3d rain you have to tell me more details on there, but for now forget because i can't yet make those ideas, most of them are only theory, at least until i finish the modifications.

What ?! It's possible to make grooves follow paths ? Well, linear and circular paths that's possible for sure, but i mean paths defined like the opponent paths or drone paths, but for noncars and objects. Or even moving platforms, i even tough making a ship on the sea with the horizontal function elevator to transport our car (like a ferryboat) to the other margin of a big river, but if it's only in linear path it's boring...

Oh, no, the earthquakes would not be constant, but imagine the sensation of a big (i mean a very big boulder or meteorite) crashing on the ground with all the possible strengh and making a earthquake and a adequate sound and even little rocks flying... i just love that feeling!

now to C2 scientist :

Yes, don't forget to tell me again that thing of the SDF import, because lumberjack said that maybe you didn't do it right.

Oh oh oh ! No, unfortunally i think its not possible to move objects with the keyboard, but your idea is good but unfortunally not possible. But my idea is also good, my idea was to we move a object (which can be also a simple cube, or anything else you want) WITH THE MOUSE and then just with a keyboard shortcout the Macro Express program determines the center coordinates of the cube in the place it is (by sending intructions to plaything2 use the funcions "force identify matrix" and "setup noncar", and then my visual basic program would read the coordinates of the temporary saved noncar file) and then the program just copy the coordinates in the clipboard and then we just go to the track txt file and press SHIFT+INSERT, this way you don't need even to point at a place to know some coordinates that aren't even exact, those that shows in below the overview window. Do you understood now my definition of the opponent path definer ? I know it's difficult to explain right but don't forget my native language isn't english.

Don't worry this way we only have to have a kayboard shortcout to capture the center coordinates of a object to the clipboard, which by itself looks very complicated but i already finished that macro and works perfectly !!!

About that navigation system like in UnrealEd i haven't tryed yet if it is really possible, wait a little more...

Hey, i said a shop but OUTSIDE the game engine, it would be a "third party" program. I have a 3d game maker so i can make a virtual shop and make the macro programs connect with it. But this is very complicated and i didn't even start to program that "shop" so i am not 100% sure if this is possible, but i think it is possible.

Well, about to buy powerups, yes it's possible, but only in the track it self, i can make a 3d button to make a hidden powerup to activate (yes it's possible to make a powerup that DECRISES the credits i have tried) and then open physical barriers to we collect the powerup. But unfortunally it's not possible to make a powerup respawn when we "buy" it.

Now i have read that text on the site of stainless about Shapeshifter, but who can garantee me that they will made another game like carmageddon ? They could even make completly different games...

WHAT ?!? How could i made such a mistake... i putted there the example of the WORLD_BALL_JOINT and i didn't even noticed !! Sorry, sorry i have made a mistake, unfortunally i couldn't find the real definition of WORLD_HINGE_JOINT, but i am sure i have experimented it some months ago and made it work right (but it's almost exactly the same as WORLD_BALL_JOINT)... but don't worry i can easly discover the format again. Next time i tell you.

WHAT DID YOU SAY ?! You talked about to use to open doors with the 'bend angle before snapping' setting ?!? Say... what a great idea i never tought of that before... I will see if i can make that...

No, forget about the WORLD_BALL_JOINT i have mistaken.

Hum... making a bounding box for a house ? That isn't impossible, with some work it's possible, it just take some time.

Forget about 3d clouds, thats an idea that isn't applyable because the drawing distance doesn't allow it... once i have increased the drawing distance beyond the values that the menu options "scenery cut-off" and "scenery pop-up" puts, for an unknow reason, every track that has opponents, everytime they recover or when they fall on the void, the game crashes (and it's a serious crash, because the only way to resolve it is to press the RESET button, not even the keyboard responds). I have tried to set the drawing distance to above about 70 (right now i can't remenber the exact value) and that problem appears again. But in tracks without opponents, even with the draw distance in 300, the game never crash that way ! And believe me i have tried that draw distance in 300, in the USS LEWINSKY tracks, with opponents, and on a Intel pentium IV 1500mgz with 320 mb ram, a geforce 2 mx200 and the game still crash when the opponents recover.

Yes, the weather effect is only applyable in little tracks, not big cities, but i can't believe you would make such big tracks, because no one until now has made big enough tracks (except Deathstreet but as it seems no one wants to finish that track, well i will try to make a big city from it !)

Oh by the way do you know to put and extract noncars from already preprocessed tracks ? I know, but and you ?

Well, yes i will blow buildings into pieces like in the same way that missions you said (and even with some girders and bricks as debris spinning in the air because of the explosion ! Very funny...)

Can you just imagine the yellow dump truck be able to break the little building structure that covers the pet pumps in the Beaver City? That is one of the things i will improve in the Beaver City, amongst many others. I will probably make that ceiling break on half...

When you said : "so you can make switches to open doors to secret areas." it's exactly that thing i said i would make to we access to the secret car feature i said.

Hum... yes, the parked cars would be stuck to the ground, but that looks a little realistic, you don't know that all the parked cars have the handbrake applyed? That way the feature of not moving parked cars in carma2 can be considered as a effect of them have the wheels with handbrake.

When you said : "About that opponent locked into some room: Are you sure it won't teleport out of there on it's own?" Look, i don't know if you already know, but remember the mission "TRUCKING HELL" and "THE BRUISE BROTHERS" ? Don't you ever notice that all the opponents in those missions are SPECIFIC opponents and that their starting position is defined in the "network start points" defined on the track .txt file ? So it's perfecly possible to make a secret car in that way. It doesn't matter that the secret car show on the map, the important is that we can't get to it before we hit some trigger to open that place where it is. And it that place is well closed, the opponent won't get out of there even if it moves.

So that thing of "network start points" is also good to "simulate" the cops from Carma1, by saying this i am also answering the person "CHRIS" that also maded a post here i hope he is reading this.

Oh so that airport bug also happens to you... and so what do you think of that, do you like that feature of bending "wires"? I liked it very much, it's very cool to see the wires all bended, and it looks a bit realistic, doesn't look much a bug to me !! It looks like a bug that can be used as a new feature that carma2 only uses on cars. Well, i plan to use it to make much more bendable structures, and even possibily make the whole building of glasses be bendable that way !! Isn't it cool that bug ?!

No i didn't have talked about any WAV, i said AVI. Well, i will try to make an animated gif, if i could, i then later will send to you if it isn't too big. But if it is too much work i quit.

Well now tell me which things are you doing in c2 editing. Which doing do you "dominate" in track making now ?

Well, that's all. Bye!!
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

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Those are one huge files to download! Not really, but I'm gonna download only one per day. I'll get the other one next time. And I wrote this short post during the downloading...

Grooves following paths would be interesting, but why wasn't it used in the original game then? How do you do it?

Moving a cube with mouse to get opponent paths ... Ok, understood.

Yes, those doors, they just won't continue moving freely around the hinges... but that's no problem. (It would have been nice in gates) But if you can remember that WORLD_HINGE_JOINT, tell me!

Well, I guess I'll make the tracks a bit bigger than the original ones. How does 4 km x 4 km sound? (Not exactly square, though, because there some forests)

Yes yes, cars have handbrakes, but friction of wheels isn't usually so big, that you couldn't move the car with a truck...but it's OK for me that they are stuck, don't worry!

What I meant for that locked car was, that won't it fly through the walls when the player is far away? I'm not sure, whatever.

I'm sorry, but I'm not doing my track currently, I have so much to do with my studies. And studies come first. (Especially the physics course: Mechanics!) But when I have time, I'll try to continue it. If making tracks was my profession, I would have more time, heh! Another choice is to use my spare time for TDR with my new computer, which gives me some ideas every now and then. But I must say that game annoyes me often, because of the stupid design of the game! (You can waste the cars only with head-on collisions, and the opponents usually teleport instantly when you turn your back to them!)

See ya soon.
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

Long topic, eh?

About your newest modification: removing junk features of original Plaything 2 is very good! Keep it up, or alternatively you could make some of them working. For example I've noticed that it's impossible to define triangles in PT2, so my track tutorial has some incorrect information. I'll have to make an update when I have time. I'll add more stuff too.

Couple of questions:

1. What are smoothing groups? What do they do?

2. What does "munge accessory" mean? (I couldn't translate the word 'munge' from English to Finnish, wasn't in the book...)

3. Sometimes when I'm selecting faces from below (car's bottom, for example), the faces don't highlight in green, but black. Then it's difficult recognize the selected ones. Or sometimes the faces will be selected, although it looks like like nothing is done. Are there any solutions for these two problems?
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Econobrick »

I've noticed that it's impossible to define triangles in PT2
that's not intirely true, you CAN define new triangles...but the vertices must already be there for it to work.
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

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Oh, then I must have done something wrong. I guess there were already a triangle, but it was facing in the opposite direction, so I thought it was a gap. Then I tried to fill that gap, and nothing happened. (Or I had selected too many vertices, can't be sure, because it doesn't show the amount of selected vertices)

Anyway, thanks for telling me, I'll try it again!

Afterward edit: Wow, we got a new page here!

[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: C2 Scientist ]
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by cesm20 »

to C2 scientist :

Please sorry if i didn't post here earlier, but in the last days i haven't any place to go to internet, but now i have again this computer with internet access, even tough it's NOT permanent access, it's still a 56k modem phone connecition. But keep in mind this post was written BEFORE i could see or read you last post, only now i readed it, so it's normal i don't say anything about that post here. It's because i am online and i don't have time to reply it right now, but i think it's not necessary to reply because what i say here is enough.

Well, you are free to download when you want because at least not right now, you won't need them to adjust plaything2, because i didn't release the macros (and don't think that just because you install the macro programs the options in BOLd on the plaything's 2 menus would work right !!) but it's good to you to get used how to use macros, to guess which things can interrupt or interfere on the macro, etc...

Well, it's just two files of 10 mb, or almost. And you won't download Automate 5 because it's over the double the size of the automate 4 ! See why i don't recommend downloading automate 5 ?

I said grooves DON'T follow paths, only can move in circular or linear paths, but we can't define the paths for them as we do with the drones.

Well i haved an ideia to make a hinged door close or open without we touching it : it's necessary to make a VERY LITTLE tiny tube (with the horizontal elevator function) which would push the door in it's side, if you don't understand so forget, as soon as i can i will send to you a mini-track with a working hinged door !!!

I can't imagine how big 4km x 4km is in carmageddon units, it's bigger than the c2 normal tracks ? If only you can make the city almost the same size of those of GTA3 (or course the size of one district, not the three districts joined!) would be very good, but i understand that will require a lot of work, specially if you don't have the macros, believe me the macros i am mading can accelerate very much the making of huge cities !!

Weell, of course we can stabilish a limit from the force that requires to those parked cars explode, if a truck would crash into them they will explode imediatly, not stay braked !!!

WHAT ?! The cars fly trought walls when the player is far away ?! Oh no, i completly forgot that... now i understand how one time a opponent passed trought a closed door, and which was a total mistery for me...

Well the only way is to remove the opponent paths in that track, that way the car will never move, but that way we can't have other opponents... well we could make a mission on that track so other opponents would not be required.

Oh, ok of course the studies comes first, but even like that sometimes you would have free time. What ? You are studing physics and mechanics ? Good !

What, you waste time editing TDR ? But you can't even make new tracks for that game !

Well if it's just to play TDR to get new ideas, very good, continue it. Sometimes i do that too.

That game for me, the main reason i don't like it is that i can't change almost nothing, everything is locked, i can't even get those keyboard shortcouts to cheats anymore, and i can't edit the duration of the powerups, and it's completly impossible to edit a track (and only changing the skin obsvioly isn't enough), and i can't even remap the keys to control the car using the NUMPAD cursor keys, because i am not used to control the car trough the normal cursor keys.

I have one big problem : the macros for Plaything2 would take a bit longer than i tough, because unfortunally i am very lazy so the macros are progressing very slowly, but fortunally now it looks like they are almost all done !

Now replying to your last post :

Unfortunally only a few "junk" features of original plaything2 i could make work, don't forget that the features "IMPORT PLAYTHING2 .SDF FILE", "RESET CAMERAS TO POINT TO SELECT OBJECT", "SELECTION TOLERANCY" are some of the hidden "junk" features that work ! It was easy because i just maded a keyboard shortcout to them and in the menus ! And in the menu MODES-AXIS you see there also several new functions that were hidden in plaything2 and some of them work correctly !!

What ?! Of course it's not impossible to define triangles in plaything2, you can select 3 vertices and press SHIFT+H (or the option "BUILD A FACE FROM 3 VERTICES" and plaything2 creates a new face. But becareful, if you don't see any face created, it's because pt2 created the face only in the other side (faces may be two sided) which means you are looking to the back of a face which looks like there is no face. Just select those 3 vertices in CLOCKWISE order and you will see a face, if not, try the COUNTERCLOCKWISE order. Don't forget to tell me about this because maybe you don't need to change that in your tuturial. Oh, by the way DON'T delete faces with the DEL button, this makes pt2 crash instantly !!

There's the answers to your questions :

1. Smoothing groups are for "soften" the edges of solids with shades when you preprocess a track, that's the only thing i know, someone here has told me, but i never used smoothing groups in c2 editing but i will have to learn later.

2. the "munge acessory" is also a bit complicated, i only knows what is it for : it's to use a simple model to make a bounding box shape for the current selected object. But this is risky and it's most likely to make pt2 crash if you don't know what are you doing, so i don't recommend using this method to make bounding boxes, but if you know what are you doing i think it will crash less times, but i don't use that option to make bounding boxes, it's the most "unstable" way to make a bounding box.

3. Maybe you ARE selecting the faces of the GRID. Don't you ever saw a grid when you start plaything2 ? Unfortunally if you select something behind the grid pt2 will select the closest face wich is the faces of the grid, yes that grid is in 3d and have many faces. The easier way is to desactivate the grid by pressing the key G, this way pt2 will never select or show the faces of the grid. But i recommend you reactivate the grid after or before you save the object, because saving a project with the grid desactivated seems to cause problems, specially when you are going to test the work inside the game.

That's all. bye
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

Thank you! I never thought I could be selecting the faces of the grid, although I had (accindentally) managed to select them in other places. Thanks for telling, I really thought it just doesn't show the highlight always ... but I'll de-activate the grid next time. There is still that black highlight problem, but I guess that can't be changed. (Why does it have to use shading for selecting highlights!?)

My first track won't be exactly a city, but it won't be a countryside either, so it'll be a town of 12000 people. (Not in C2, though!) Don't worry, we got loads of smashable stuff around here, and shops, and I'll include a small path of highway too. When this all is finished some time, I'll do the second part of this town. Or maybe I'll join them together, if it won't be too big. The track after that would then be a 15 km highway, but it'll take time to get there. These are my plans. The next one would be a city. (By the way, I'm talking about real locations, which are near my home, so you can drive in real landscapes of Central-Finland some time ... hope you understand the road signs!) If I just could use more than 100 noncars in one track, but there's that limit. Are you sure I can't use two of the same numbered noncars?

But where do I get all the time for this from?
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Small Block »

I guess it's time for me to chime in....

Yes, there is a limit to the total number of

noncars in a track! That limit is 340(or 350...I misremember..). One more and the game crashes...also, the maximum dimensions for a track APPEAR to be 500 plaything units in every direction(so that's a 1000 unit- long square, and presumably cube.... ).

What happens if you go over that limit?

Well, the game doesn't crash, but the camera will stay whithin the limits whatever you do, so you actually see your car(you can still control it!) from a now stationary point....the cam goes back in as soon as you get back inside the limit!

As for what size that allows you to represent, well, it will depend on the size of your cars in a small part, but 1 plaything unit appears to be in the vicinity of 15ft(5m) in most cases....so we have a 5-click square, which isn't too bad!

If you're wondering what I've done to know that...well, let's say you'll be able to download the answer one of these days!
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Econobrick »

edit: nevermind!

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Econobrick ]
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

350 what? The value of different kinds of noncars, or the absolute limit of noncars, even of the same kind? (If it's the value of different kind of noncars, most of them would have the same physics settings!) I've made one test, I renamed a road sign and parked car to have the same two digit number, and the result was, that the road sign used the parked car's physics! (Wasn't attached to ground anymore, and the bounding shapes were bigger, that means, it was the parked car's bounding shape.)

So the limit is 2,5 kilometers x 2,5 kilometers? Hmm ... doesn't sound too good ... I'll try to combine two original tracks into one, and see what happens, if I still can do it for preprocessed tracks. (that unit conversion stuff was also in my track tutorial, have you read it?) At least that highway won't be possible, then. By the way, I'd like to see that 'answer'! (Of course it's easy to make a small test with CarEd: one simple, long surface, and test that in the game)

So that limit causes the same effect like TDR's drop camera thing? I'd like to have that in C2, but as a controlled version, of course!

By the way, that limit can be 'extended' slightly, by making the track with a smaller scale, not too small, though, so that the cars won't look too big. But, the smaller the track is, the faster your car seems to be going, and the further the braking distances will get. Of course this won't extend that limit very much... just mentioned it.
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Small Block »

Scientist: that's not a 2.5x2.5, but a 5x5 square...

The 350 noncars limit is a comprehensive one, it's the total number of supplemental actors(w/ .ACT extension in the hierarchy) that the game will process. There doesn't seem to be a limit to how many objects of the same kind you can have, as long as you stay under the total limit. Remember that as long as it's got .ACT in it's name, it's a moveable object, so it doesn't matter if it's a groovy part or a regular noncar, it counts the same!

As for different noncars having the same physics, I don't see why that should happen, as long as you name each of them w/the correct 2-digit identifier(&310000.ACT, &22001.ACT...etc.) and reference each type in the .txt.
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

Oh, in EVERY direction ... well, 5 km x 5 km sounds better!
As for different noncars having the same physics, I don't see why that should happen, as long as you name each of them w/the correct 2-digit identifier(&310000.ACT, &22001.ACT...etc.) and reference each type in the .txt.
But how about &02Lamp0000.ACT and &02Sign0001.ACT? I didn't try with those 0000 and 0001 yet...
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Small Block »

The only important part is the &xx beginning of the identifier, that's the reference used to collate the actor w/ the txt file referenced at the end of the track's .txt, the rest, w/ the zeroes is only to distinguish one noncar from others of the same type. And, if you look in the original game's noncar folder, you'll notice that different tracks use different IDs for what is basically the same object, that's b/c some tracks use noncars w/ a 2-digit code that's the same as another noncar type in other tracks(look at the lamp posts in the beaver woods and beaver city)...i hope I'm clear enough... . If not...well you can't use 2(or more) different types of noncars in the same track that use the same 2-digit identifier....you'll end up w/ rectangular bboxes for all of them!
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

I understand, if I make more than 99 different noncars (with CarEd or something), I have to make a new some-other-two-digit-number-using textfile for some of the objects so that there won't be same two-digit numbers for different kinds of objects, right? I don't know if I wrote it in the most simple way, but I surely understand this thing. I've thought it myself some time ago, because parked cars will use many two-digit numbers, and the limit will come faster. An example could be, that if '02RailRoadCrossing.txt' won't be used in some forest track, I could rename some '41PineTree.txt' into '02PineTree.txt', if that '41' would be used even with some other noncar too...

By the way, I just made a 2000 unit long road (10 kilometers), and drove it from end to end (took some time), but the camera worked normally all the time! The problem you described, does it happen only with high polycounts of the track? (Or for pre-processed tracks, because I haven't pre-processed that road yet)
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Small Block »

Damn! You may very well be right, it may have to do w/ preprocessing!

The example I gave was that of a pre-processed track!

If it's a no-ped circuit, we may be able to do more than 1000!
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Small Block »

you know what? You may be on to sth about the polycount....one of the tracks I have has a portion that goes beyond -500 units and I never even noticed it! No pb at all, and it's a lower poly count track than the one where I experienced the "stopped camera problem".........
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

I just preprocessed that 10 km road, but the camera didn't drop, so I guess it has to be that polycount, or something. (No-ped track would be too boring!)

By the way, I told earlier I'll try to combine to tracks into one ... it didn't work correctly, I tried to combine Beef Curtains and Beaches of Blood: Beef Curtains worked well, but Beaches of Blood missed major parts of the track. (only 10% were there: small parts everywhere in the void, like small path of highway, and small part of the beach...) I had to preprocess the preprocessed tracks again, otherwise the track was completely empty: car drops into the void, recovers, drops, recovers, etc.

I don't know if the preprocessing caused those problems, but at least polycount shouldn't be a problem, because C1 tracks were rather low-poly tracks. If we could get this working, we could have a big track, and there would be more available slots for new tracks in the game menus. (We could model bridges which lead from one track to another)

Hey, Econo, why does the preprocessing always ask for certain textures, like HelmetCund, Snow1, Eng[something], and much more? It's annoying, and it slows down the preprocessing very much. The textures are already in "data\reg\pixelmap.twt", why does it need them again?

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: C2 Scientist ]
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Econobrick »

i don't know...i've never had it ask for any texture when preprocessin' (i don't think so anyway).
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

Hmm, I'll try something, then.

Brick = Ziegelstein auf Deutsch? Dann ich waere ein C2 Wissenschaftmann! Aber ich finde Englisch "Scientist" besser...
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Econobrick »

hmm... i dunno, 'Wissenschaftmann' DOES sound pretty funky!

actually a full german traslation would be 'Ökonoziegel', right? does that sound even better?

[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: Econoziegel ]
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by cesm20 »

to C2 scientist :

Sorry if the order of the post of each reply you made isn't accurate, but you posted so many times i couldn't post anything, each time i would post my reply i saw a new post and i haved to go home and update my post. But now it seems the posts stoped for a while.

Hey, i readed you post about the DOS pixies extractor, and RAVEN X as told you to ask me, and looks like you forgot ! Do you still need that program ? Yes, it's true i made a pixies PACKER, but a pixies extractor for what i know it's a little more dificult, so i haven't tryed to make it yet. I still have the pixies PACKER if you want, it's good you can release cars in TWT format even with new textures, isn't it great ?

The problem is that i can't make DOS programs, i only made Visual Basic programs. But i can made this program support commandlines and don't show any window, so it can act as a DOS program, but unfortunally it's only to PACK pixies files, both PIXIES.P16 and PIXIES.P08. Well if you really want a pixies extractor you will have to wait until i finish the pt2 modifications, because i plan to integrate the pixies packer in the plaything2 menu, and maybe i will made a pixies unpacker, but i don't know if i can do it or not. Because packing pixies files seems to be easier than to extract them.

DON'T forget to activate the grid back when you save, because it may crash carma2 if you save a track with the grid disactivated. I am not 100% sure, but in the few times i have tried that it crashed carma2 !

I really can't understand what you mean by "black highlight" can you explain that with other words and in a different way to me to understand that ?

Well you made a confusion about your first track, why you said "Not in c2, tough" ? It means that this track will not be for c2 ? So what game is it for ? I couldn't understand, do you mean that c2 doesn't support 12000 pedestrians ? If it's that maybe it's truth. But you must realize that it's better to have less pedestrians and increase (double) the polygon count of each one, because the pedestrians of c2 are too blocky, they need to have at least 300 or 400 polygons, i am planning to do that, and isn't too dificult as many people would think (and i am planning to use the 3d models of the game THE SIMS). Because the actual pedestrians of carma2 only have 100 polygons, that's ridiculous ! It's better to have about 400 or 500 pedestrians with 300 or 400 polygons that 1200 pedestrians with 100 polygons !

Oh, see it's that kind of city tracks i want ! I promise i will made them too, specially using the map of the streets of my city and other cities close to mine, i recommend you using a map of the streets of the real town you said you will made !

Well, with a cube of 1000 plaything2 units (maybe about 5 kms) maybe it's enough to make a big city, even one like the Maim Street of carma1 is enough as a minimum if the limit is 5 kms.

Hum... a city with 15 kms... that is very good if it could be done, try to check the limit of the size of the track first.

I like to play a track that it's so long that it looks i have travelling in real life to another country by car...

Yes don't forget the road signs, but try to put them in english at least. But if i were you, i would put a lot of parked cars in the streets instead of thousands of drones. Drones have some really anoying bugs, like disapearing in a certain distance, moving in a very strange way (the same thing happend to pedestrians) and they can't blown up. So it's better you use smashable parked cars like in GTA3 and put some ones like noncars like the green car in carma1.

Listen, you don't need more than 100 DIFFERENT noncars ! Don't forget most of them will be repeated on the track ! But i can make some experiments to overcome that limit of 100 different noncars ! Don't mistake this with the 340 limit noncars that SMALL BLOCK said, those he said it's the total of noncar objects on the track, even those repeated ! Talking In a short way, you can have 100 DIFFERENT kinds of noncars in a track as a maximum and about 340 total noncars models on the track. But i never knew that the limit was about 340 noncars, i never tried that, i have to talk with SMALL BLOCK with this, because maybe that limit depends on the memory of the computer which the game run in. I will soon made a test track and i will tell you the exact limit of noncars in a track. Anyway read also the reply i made to him.

See i told you, you can't have two different noncars with the same number, if not the game will use the same bounding box that one of those two noncars have, so if you try to use two different noncars with the same number, so use it when the model is the same and just the texture is different, for example for road signs. With those you can use the same number, but the bounding box and model must be the same. See that's a excelent way to overcome this limit, when you want two noncars with the same number and the same model, only that each one use a different texture ! Understood ? This is a excelent advise don't forget it!

Well, about the time you will take to make that city, of course without the macros it will take several weeks, but as soon as i finish the macros i tell you. But unfortunally i am very lazy, so it will take some more weeks. And i have several free time, but i am very very lazy. Fortunally in these last days finally i am improving and continuing some macros faster than before, but sometimes i get so lazy that it passes two weeks and i don't do nothing, but now it's continuing.

I am happy you managed to make a track with 10 km and the camera didn't drop, but i remenber long time ago i also haved that problem of the camera dropped but i don't have ideia in which circunstances it happened, that was long time ago.

What, you are combining 2 tracks into one ? Good ideia ! I also thinked to combine the 3 districts of the carma1 cities into one big track called "Bleak City" (which is the name of the carma1 city that is represented on those 3 districts) but i can't do anything without finishing the macros.

If you managed to resolve that problem of only 10% of the track showing up, tell me, ok ? Do you tried the option "import .sdf project" ?

About preprocessing asking for those materials "helmetcund, snow1, eng" and others, that happened to me also, and after that all the powerups are white, which is horrible !! Those are the materials of the powerups. I will try later a way to resolve this problem. But tell me more about that thing of combining two tracks, if you managed to make that work right, tell me !!

bye

to SMALL BLOCK :

Wowwwww... finally i have an ideia of how many noncars c2 can take... i knew there was a limit because i browsed the carma2_hw.exe file and i found there many interesting error mensages like "Too many non-car types" or "Too many drones in race (limit %d)" so there is also a limit for the number of drones in a track.

But that limit on 350 actors can be depending on the memory or on the kind of computer, or it even that limit in high-end computures ?

Oh, there is also a limit of knocked down noncars in a track, it never happened to you, that after you knock down several noncars in a track with the car, some of them become "stuck" or unmovable (like the buildings) and can't be moved anymore ? That is also another limit but that one maybe it's about the memory the computer have. And that also happens with the smashable fences but this one is serious because if the fences become undestructable you can't reach certain parts of the track, i need to find the limit of this one.

Hum... do you have ever seen the folowing options in the OPTIONS.TXT file :

MapRenderX 80.000000

MapRenderY 400.000000

MapRenderWidth 128.000000

MapRenderHeight 80.000000

These values may be related to that limit of the size of the track and camera, don't you think ? One day i have changed this values and i can't remember right what happened, but i think it's about that limit of showing a track or not. Can you test again that limit of 500 plaything2 units and change this values ? Maybe you have done a test track, if not how did you know that limit ? So if you can test that options i said above these lines, please tell me if you can test that limit again, ok ?

By the way can you tell me what the hell the file "TreeSurgery.TXT" is for ? For much i have investigating i can't discover the funciton of that file, i even deleted it and the game didn't crash ! So it's useless ?!

bye
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Small Block »

To Cesm:

I think the TreeSurgery is a piece of a project the game crew had of making smashable trees(ever met a rock solid tree foliage?....yeah, me neither)...which they couldn't finish in time.

As for the indestructable noncars, I think it has to do w/ the game not being totally reliable in it's own operations(remember the game isn't finished! Same reason we have "frozen cops" and "turbo cops" powerups....but no cops!!). I think that, b/c it happens from time to time, in various tracks including the original ones, w/o any apparent regularity and regardless of the system workload. I also thought it could be memory related, but I have 256MB of RAM, so.....

As far as the numbers in the options.txt, I think I didn't see any change when I fiddled w/it....you may be right!

One thing about the actor limit: C2 arbitrarily loads whatever interpretable stuff there is in the folder! So, let's say you already have the max # of separate actors in your track...if you leave one more .ACT than necessary in the folder, your game will crash even though it's not specifically called in the txt or whatnot. Works the same w/ cars, you leave sth in the car's folder and you'll see it in game even though it's not referenced anywhere..

BTW, I'm VERY interested in that pixies packer! Does it work on NT systems? And do you need the original tiffs, or only the PIX folders?
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Econobrick »

i am also interested in said pixies packer! i've tried to make a pixies set before...but it just didn't work.
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

Good morning, gentlemen.

Well I don't think I would have any use for pixies packer, because I like when the cars are as folders: they are more easily editable. (Unlike TWTs, which have to be extracted first... I hate it) I have even tried to make the original tracks run from folders, but I haven't succeeded yet: for example NewC.twt doesn't have all the textures from the city tracks. (Or CarEd's pixies extractor doesn't extract them all) I even tried copying all the textures into the same city track's texture folder, but that caused problems: the textures overwrote each other (same filenames!), and so the city had different textures from the original. By the way, as you may have read, I prefer DOS programs, because I can make them to do some tasks with Bat-files. (.BAT = batch) I can't make windows programs do that, or can I?

Oh, the "black highlight"... well, if you select some faces in PT2, you'll see them as green highlight. But when you go selecting the faces from below, the highlight turns darker. I think you could try that with some sphere: start selecting from the middle and go below. Ok?

Hey, don't worry, I was talking about the peds! Sure, there's a lot of people around here (that 12000), but I meant I won't make 12000 ped tracks. So I will make the track for C2! I don't even know for what racing games I could make tracks from scratch. If I've understood correctly, in NFS 4, some gamers have managed to move the polys of the track, which just makes some extra turns, bumps and slopes, but they haven't made any tracks from scratch, I think. But I'd like to be able to convert the completed track to NFS Porsche 2000 anyway, since it has all lighting stuff. But C2 comes first!

Yes, I'm using a map when modeling, but not very much: they are not very accurate. (Especially maps of cities!)

Note: I'm not making 15 kilometer city, but I guess you didn't think so anyway. I meant 15 kilometer highway. Hey, I like long tracks too, a mission in such a track would be cool! It's just much work. Unless you make a lot of objects separately and as objects, which you can easily import, that's what I do.

That 340-limit really doesn't sound very good. In that case, I'll have to make all the trees as solid objects. Or smashable objects! (Is that limit even for smashables?) Those are the only options, because I will use so much trees in my track. Hey, that will give me more two-digit numbers, good! And that other limit, 100 two-digit numbers: I think I can make some parked cars use the same bounding shape, if they are quite similar. (I can save some two-digit numbers) Or make them as smashables too. Now that I imagine, it sounds like fun to drive a heavy truck on a parking lot, when every car causes an explosion! (And repeated award codes) I could even make some weak objects as smashables, like crates or chairs, but then they can't be moved.

Combining two tracks: Beef Curtains show up fully, but Beaches of Blood has only 10% showing up. So when I start the combined level, I start from Beef Curtains, then I drive near the sea and type the fly cheat to start flying to the Beaches of Blood. And THERE are those missing parts. I can just see small parts everywhere. And when I fly back to Beef Curtains, everything shows up, and is normal.

(This isn't about track combining anymore)

In preprocessing window, is "Standard"-method the best option? How about "None"? I did it once, and at least peds were still there. But how about smashables? And doesn't the "Standard" preprocessing create unnecessary polys?

EDIT: Nevermind that "peds were there", the track was already preprocessed once, I'll try with non-preprocessed track again.

[ September 28, 2002: Message edited by: C2 Scientist ]
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by cesm20 »

hey, c2 scientist and other users of plaything 2 ! Good news ! I managed to make that navegation system with the mouse you sugested to do !! Of course it's absolutly required the macro program, but it's cool to control the view on the 3d viewport with the mouse ! The limitations are that you can't use the mouse buttons to do anything new, just the old functions like moving objects or selecting objects. But you can still use the usual keyboard keys to zoom, increase/decrease zoom amount, move the view with the keyboard at the same time, and others but while you control the view with the mouse a macro is running all the time so you can't run any other macros until you cancel this one that makes the mouse control the view with the mouse. At the moment this is the only mouse navegation possible, it's still not as good as UnrealEd program but it's better than only using keys. One other problem is even if the mouse moves to any other place on the screen it will continue to move the view, but if the mouse cursor is moved on top of other viewports it will move only the view of that viewport ! So when using this navegation system, you will have to try to keep the mouse inside the 3d viewport because the macro can't detect the limits of the desired viewport, but if you maximize it, it's much better and recommended. So, C2 scientist tell me what you think, is this better than the usual keyboard navegation ? This is the best i can do, and a navegation system like UnrealEd is IMPOSSIBLE but this one is possible. Any questions ?

note : about the last replys don't worry i will reply them next time i go to net, i will reply to c2 scientist, small block, and even econobrick, i won't forget no one !!!
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

Hard to say what I think because I can't test it yet, but sounds very good, of course! And yes, couple of questions:

1. How do you switch to mouse moving? Or does it start to move the view as soon as the mouse cursor gets into the viewport? (I hope not, that would be difficult)

2. How do you separate moving the view from moving the objects?

EDIT: (For my post before this)

Preprocessing with "none"-method just seems to use the latest method which was used before "none". And Quadtree-preprocessing will crash the game, always. (Junk stuff, I think) So, "Standard" is the only option. That's why it is impossible to avoid unnecessary polys if you want peds and smashables. Just for your information.

Oh, I almost forgot to ask: What is pen mode? I have no idea.

[ October 03, 2002: Message edited by: C2 Scientist ]
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by cesm20 »

to all people :

finally the macros of my Pt2 modification will be released soon at Bandit's site and maybe also on DTD ! Which means that this time the options in bold will finnaly work because i release the macros with this build4 !! Just wait that my zip file is posted on one of those two sites.

to smallblock :

so, the treesurgery is completly useless... at least one last question : if we delete that file, absolutly nothing happens in the game ? The game don't crash or change anything just because we deleted the file ? Even if i tried maybe with you, you can notice any difference... I am asking this because even if that wasn't finished maybe it still could affect the game behavior....

Hum... i don't think that that thing of indestructable noncars is kind of "buggy" (i know you didn't said exactly that) because it ONLY happens after knocking down SEVERAL noncars, and maybe it's even that 340 limit ! I don't know if that is the limit, but if it is then there is also a limit of knocked or un-attached noncars... oh no !!! Well but i will make a test track and later i tell you the EXACT limits.

Fortunally that thing of the cops has nothing to do with the indestructable noncars, but simply the cops weren't implemented in the game, but the powerups remained there, and yes the fault is that thing of the game not being finished.

That thing of the actor limit is impressive ! So it takes ALL the .act files that are in the folder, even those that aren't declared ! But that limit is the same limit of .act objects in a track, like the noncars ? It's because not all noncars have a corresponding .act file in the folder of the track...

You are interested in the pixies packer ? Good, do you want to be my "beta-tester" ? Kind of just testing to see if the program packs well the files. Then i will send to you the program to your email, right now (after this being posted on CWA boad). But i haven't updated the program in more than one year (the last time it was compiled was on 20 October 2001 !), but right before i sent to you i will made some modifications. Don't worry i do not quitted to improved the program, but i will include a better version of it in the full package of Plaything2 mofication, later i give you more details.

The program can ONLY pack to the format PIXIES.P16 and PIXIES.P08 and it requires the .pix files that the game produces when you run with Tiffrgb files, so my program don't need the .tif files, just the produced .pix files by the game ! Cool, isn't it ? But be carefull because this program doesn't have error detection, if you indicate a empty folder it will still try to make the pixies file and mess up. You must select the PIX16 folder to pack the .pix files in there to PIXIES.P16. I doubt you would use the PIX8 feature, but i putted that there because in the time i maded that program i still haved a S3 VIRGE DX 4mb video card so i only used Software mode ! But now i run perfectly in Direct3d mode with a new graphics card.

Tell me, why do you want the pixies packer ? I recommend you to use it to pack custom cars released on the net as .twt files, finally people can release cars in .twt format without worring about the .tif files. Yes i know this program is not good for those that prefer the cars being easly editable but just imagine if you download 200 cars from the net... just browse your carma2 directory and see the thousands of files there !! See the pratical use of my program ?

I think it will run on NT, because it is a visual basic 6 program. But you will need the vb6 run-times.

to Econobrick :

Oh, you also are interested in the pixies packer ? Ok i can send it to you also by email. But please, if you don't mind read also the rest of this reply for the other people like smallblock and c2scientist.

But don't forget : it's only a packer not a unpacker.

to C2 scientist :

You don't need it ? Ok, but if you have very cars installed on you Carma2 directory, you will see that the number of files increase very fast, and it's easy to reach 2000 files and that makes the hard drive slower, or other kind of bad things. Anyway, it's because that i have maded that program. Anyway, i will include it in my Pt2 modification.

About CARED's pixies extractor it only extracts little pix, not the big pix files like the map. Yes my program CAN act like a DOS program, i can make it accept command line arguments, yes it's possible. But of course not all windows programs do that, but there is also many DOS programs that doesn't accept command line arguments.

So, that is the black highlight ? Ok, just keep in mind that even the highligh has shades ! That's the explanation !

Well, if the track is big enough, i don't know if c2 can handle 12000 pedestrians, have you tried it ? On a bigger track than the original c2 ones of course ! The game crash ?

Yes, of course the city maps aren't accurate but helps a lot ! Because it's boring to have another city for c2 with the streets all in a perfect grid... you know, not having diagonal streets in relation of horizontal roads.

Well, when i finish my modification i will see how much time takes to make a 15 km city. It isn't impossible !

About the 340 limit, do you plan to use it tu put thousands of trees ?! Well i don't know if with smashables the limit is the same, only smallblock can asnwer that i think.

Yes, good ideia the parked cars can have a similiar bounding box AND different 3d models, if the 3d models are also similiar they don't need to be exactly equal.

Hey, good ideia ! It's that kind of ideias i like ! (the parking lot full of cars and also having weak objects)

About combining tracks, later i will try also to combine two tracks, it must be a way to correctly combine two or even three tracks into one. What we need is a strategy to do that, for example, people also said that we can't put new noncars in already preprocessed tracks but i know how to do that and move them. But of course the method it's different than doing that in non-preprocessed tracks.

I really don't have an idea of what that "method" means. "Standard", "quadtree" and "none" i don't see the meaning, maybe some one else already know. What i know is that we CAN reduce the number of divisions that the track is cutted, in the OPTIONS when selecting STANDARD method. But please if you discover what those methods are for, tell me !

About your last reply i will answer tomorrow.

Bye !!
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

Shades, that's the word! Now you have understood what I meant.

Heh, not thousands of trees, but I guess that I would reach that 340 limit with only trees, if I made them as noncars!

You liked those "smashable"-ideas? I've got another idea too: (It's not about smashables, though) In your latest modification you had figured out that "true color"-thing in material editor. With that we can reduce the download sizes of the track: Make as many textures white as possible, and you can import the same texture with different identifiers and apply different colours for them. For example a white wooden fence: you can make the fence white, yellow or red, if you define the colour for the same texture, but different identifiers. (But it looks like white in PT2, except if it has alpha channels, then it looks like the colour which is chosen)

Notice that this isn't recommended for textures which have different colours in them. (Like advertisements, other pictures, or gambling machines, because it puts the colour to the whole texture, as you know) With that you could make black and grey asphalt of the same texture, but if the asphalt has white or yellow markings, they would turn into black/grey too. So I guess that's only useful for basic surfaces.

Oh, by the way, I have finally figured out how to make transparent textures in Photoshop Elements: the layers work kind of like those channels. I should have known that!

Methods? Well, don't mind of those, because only "Standard" works. Others are totally useless.

You know what? Making PT modifications is almost like making prefabs: When they are done, the "actual" work will be completed faster! They are like preparing and planning the actual track making, right?
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by matt »

rat sussted pixie packing about 3 years ago if i recall correctly, oh the things you guys miss not being in #carmageddon
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Small Block »

to Cesm: I'd sure be happy to serve as a beta-tester!

The main reaon I'm interested in that packer is for tracks: I have a bunch of C1 conversions w/ a HUGE bunch of textures each, and the loading time is horribly long, esp. for the city levels...a single .TWT file makes things much faster.

Have you ever experienced the opposite of the "frozen noncars" problem? Sometimes, the noncars' bbox seems completely off and you can drive thru them! I'm not sure, it may be b/c my comp isn't fast enough....or the game doesn't always check what it's doing.....

As far as preprocessing.....you can pretty much edit a preprocessed track, move things around, import, etc...just don't forget to re-preprocess it before running it!

As for the actor limit, what I was trying to say is that the limit is COMPREHENSIVE! That means 340(or -50, whatever) objects w/ a .ACT extension, whether they're imported into the track or simply dropped in the track folder(in that case, they'll be at coords 0,0,0 of the tracks/car matrix).

BTW, I'll make a tutorial on realistic physics for C2 one of these days, and I'd be interested in knowing what you found in the C2 executable (especially keywords to activate things....I'm still hoping to make a real FWD car!).
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by cesm20 »

to econobrick and smallblock :

sorry but only now i can email you the pixies packer program, in the other weekend i forgot. I hope you like it ! I have sended it right now to you email !

to smallblock only :

About your last post don't worry, tommorrow i answer it ! right now i can't i don't have time ! bye
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

And of course the smashables won't work without ACT-extension, right?

Hmm, after dealing with smashable structures I noticed, that it's possible to drive on them. Like on that wooden Start-structure like in "Piste off"-level, which can be destroyed. That means that we can drive on parked smashable cars with monster trucks. Fun if they are parked in the side of street in cities. Just be careful not to explode them!

And there are plenty of those smashed pieces after impact, so I guess I don't have to make additional falling parts very much. (Like car wheels flying in the air after hitting a smashable car, or bonnets, etc.)
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Small Block »

C2 Scientist:

And of course the smashables won't work without ACT-extension, right?

Huh?? Wrong! The .ACT extension is only used by the game to handle movable objects. The smashables are using special attributes defined in a .MAT file(needs to be in the working folder), you indicate their status by way of the .txt, and must signal them to the preprocessing menu....
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by cesm20 »

to c2 scientisti :

I also don't have an ideia of what pen mode is, i simply putted there because i don't know the real name of that function which has a pen as a icon. But i think it is used to make cars, but i don't know what is it for, ask someone who made cars.

Now i will reply your post of 05 october :

I really don't know if you should to put such many trees, i think in fact it's better to make them as static models, because don't forget that there is also a limit of knocked down noncars and after that limit they will be "static" also and some can't be moved but that only happens after knocking down several noncars.

Yes, is that the correct use of the TRUE COLOR option, do that, make skins with that option, it's very good i hope many people use this option to make skins.

Yes i know what you mean for example a skin of a car, if the tyres part is also there, the tyres would also change color, i understood what you mean.

Hum... try to make a tuturial in how to make transparent textures in Photoshop.

Hey don't tell me you didn't notice the option "insert prefabs" in my build 4 ! So as you see i am making a thing like that, to insert noncars and smashables easier, just wait for the next macros release.

Very good CONTINUE with that idea of many cars parked and make them explode, don't quit that idea. But don't you think it's better if you can make a black skin after they explode ? It can even be equal for all parked cars after exploded.

to Small Block :

Oh, i didn't thinked about that ! ARE YOU SURE the game loads the tracks faster if they are packed in TWT files ? What a goo idea !! I thinked before that The only disvantage to use tiffrgb files is that if we have many cars or many tracks it will clutter the disk with thousands of files, yes, what a good idea i hope c2scientist knows that and that he see the true use of my tool.

Hum... YES ! I remenber now that sometimes, after knocking down several noncars, specially trees, they can still be pushed but the bbox is messed up, the tree is moved and the same time it half-sinks into the road (more than usual), very weird, i think it's the same problem of the frozen noncars, but in the opposite direction.

I am not sure, but maybe the opponent cars limit the number of .act files in the current track... maybe it's because that the limit of knocked noncars shows up... because some opponent cars have too many detachable parts, maybe it's because that.

what does mean a "FWD car" ? Sorry but i am portuguese and i am not used to english abreviations and i have to use dicionaries. But i hope you made that tuturial about c2 physics, because the c2 physics are unique i never seen a game with so good physics, how many games you can have a traffic light post hang from a checkpont and DON'T fall ?
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