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Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by SoupaVedg »

Didn't ADR's Escort was a FWD while the front wheels would still steer?
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

Phew! Then I can fill the track with smashables! Yay!

Cesm:

I meant that I've already decided to make trees as solid objects. I'll make them to be part of the track model after importing, not as noncars.

You have Photoshop too?

Er, I don't have your Build4 yet, just Build3. Didn't you just release Build4? Anyway I'll get it as soon as possible. In your own site? Ok.

Black skin for exploded cars? Actually I was thinking that the falling parts (triangles, shards) could fall through the ground in the middle of huge explosions... but hmm, then there wouldn't be anything left couple of seconds after the explosions... If there were a exploded body of a car after the explosion, I would have to define bounding shapes for them, meaning that I would have to use noncars again, right? True or not?

Like in the Carrier-level: those turrets exploded, and the parts started to fly in the air... don't they have bounding shapes in noncar textfiles too?

I guess I could use those TWT-files then. Because I won't edit the track textfiles anymore when the track is already completed... could you put the pixies-packer on your site?

Let me answer this: FWD = front-wheel-drive (car) In C2, usually the rear wheels accelerate the car (RWD), except in Farmer Fright's combine harvester.

Of course it's possible to make "FWD" cars in C2: change the wheel positions! Heh heh! (I know you didn't mean that, because then the rear wheels will steer!)

Speaking of which: what does IMO mean?
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Small Block »

FWD=Front Wheel Drive

As for the speed improvement, yes, I'm sure of it! A single TWT file is read by the drive in one shot, the game assembles the contents. A folderized track...well, the drive heads have to reset and re-track for each of the .pix files, plus each track model and .txt files.....some tracks have more than 200 textures...you see the difference.

BTW, I haven't got that .pix packer yet, did you send it?
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by cesm20 »

to c2 scientist, small block and econobrick :

finally i released my pixies packer in my site. Just go to the main page and download it, it's called newpixies.zip

About the windows xp macros fix, everyone will have to wait until the next friday or weekend. And those that tried to run the macros, it was missing two JPGs that two macros asked. They are on the zip file IMAGES.ZIP just read the beginning of my web page. bye
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by cesm20 »

yes, that's right, econobrick

And about the pt2 mod have you tried ? you haved any problems ? And c2 scientist ? and small block ?
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by Econobrick »

yeah, i got your pixies packer. and i must say it worked quite nicely! i may pack my cars in .twts from now on (tried it and it worked sucessfully). why, you ask? because while it may be a little more of a hassle for skinners, it would be better overall to have the files in one pack instead of a directory. (less stuffs and MAY make the game load a little faster.)

and if anyone wanted the textures for said car, they'd just have to ask.
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

Cesm, correct me if I'm wrong, but have you ever said that you don't have the sources for Plaything 2?
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by cesm20 »

yes, i don't have the sources of pt2. why do you ask ?
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

I'm just wondering, why don't they give those to you, because I think they have developed some new technology, and probably don't use PT so much anymore. (You have asked them to, haven't you?)

By the way, would you even have any use for the sources? Would it make any things easier, or give you more possibilities?
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

I don't want to start a new topic, so I just let my fingers dance here. This will come temporarily back to the top of the topic list, I hope you don't mind.

So, a small 'discovery': I've decided to make some almost same sized signs to use same physics files. That means that they will use same actor name when imported. Now, the problem was, that if the filenames were the same (in the folder where I have all the noncars), they overwrote each other. (Round, square or triangle signs) But I just noticed, that I can keep the actor names the same, if I save them as different-named SDF-files.

So, every sign can use 02RoundSign's physics like this:

-02RoundSign.SDF can contain a model "&02RoundSign.ACT", and

-03SquareSign.SDF can contain a model "&02RoundSign.ACT" too.

The models can be different, but because of the same actor name, they'll use same physics. I did this, and now my 5 different signs use only one textfile, instead of the earlier 5 textfiles. That makes 4 textfiles less to the 99-limit. (Well, I guess I won't reach the limit, because my parked cars don't use textfiles anymore)

Of course there can be "&03SquareSign.ACT" in 03SquareSign.SDF, but in that case you will have to rename &03SquareSign.ACT into &02RoundSign.ACT every time you import the noncar.

Back to researching, I'll have to figure out how to make as much special effects for smashable stuff as possible, without using any ACT-files. (or at least not too many) By now, I have made a bus to vanish with explosions, but I'd like to have some flying parts too. And maybe some dropping shards like in the Start-structure in winter level, but that might need ACT-files. At least in the textfile, in the smashable stuff-part (Startgate), there was something about "startgate_smash.act"... well, see for yourself, if you want.

Hmm, this is what the post was originally all about! Image Research and development.

EDIT: Some stuff, this is what I did for Unreal 1 long ago:

Image

I never finished that level, because I decided to wait for DNF, so it lacks some detail. There is couple of more places, that can't be seen in the picture.

And some good news: I took my CarEd-track, and threw it into GMax, I'll be continuing it there! Still, at least skinning has to be done in Plaything 2.

[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: C2 Scientist ]
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by cesm20 »

long time i don't post anything here. hi c2 scientist. finally we can talk again. about your post i will reply it soon, maybe sunday. bye (by the way did you have any problem with the macros ? Or you don't want to try that ?)
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

Hi Cesm. I haven't had any need for the macros yet, because I'm still working on the terrain and other solid models. When that's done... actually I'm not sure if I had the trial time expired in Macro Express.

Hey, have you begun making your track? If you haven't the it'd be a good idea to consider at least Gmax, maybe even something better if such a program exists (well, 3DSMax I guess!), but at least not CarEd. I've been very delighted of the possibilities in Gmax, imagine that it's totally free! Just a registration is required. Well, enough advertising.

Now, a bit of researhing results:

If someone else than me is also playing with full view distance... -well, it's not exactly full in my C2... anyway, you might be annoyed that drones appear in 20 metres front of you. In that case, you could try this:

- Open some drone's textfile, change the CAR into TRAIN, and in processing-part, change DISTANCE to ALWAYS.

Now, like the train in Twin shrieks-level, the drone will be always visible. But if the game starts crashing, you'd better undo the changes. For me it did, but not very much. If I knew how to change some setting (appearing distance) somewhere, I would do it, but this is what I have for now. The TRAIN-keyword won't cause any other changes, odd! But PLANE-keyword does: the drones won't slow down in curves, and that looks really unrealistic!

Then the smashable stuff: To make importable objects smashable, follow this:

1. Import, move to hierarchy

2. Rename to have & in the beginning

3. Move it to its place, use "Modify geometry"'s "Force identity matrix"

4. (Preprocess)

Then the lines in track's textfile. If you use "Ghostparts"-mode, there will be something about "Shrapnel materials". If there are any ACT-files (and DAT and MAT), you can write them here. No two-digit numbers required! When the object is trashed, the shrapnel material will appear and fall through the ground. (The ghostpart) The count value shouldn't be -1, then nothing will appear. Instead, use "1" or "2", etc. If the mode is "Replacemodel", some other ACT-file will replace the original model, and that remains in the track, probably.

Now I have to see if I can use shards too, like in smashable glass. Guess I should take a look at smashing icebear in winter level, and its shrapnel material! Because it's not possible to ask Stainless about this, I'd like you professionals to help me with this, if ya want...

I think I can't use anything, that permanently remains in the track, because that could cause problems with the 340-limit. So I can just use shards and ghostparts, meaning everything that disappears through the ground. And explosions.
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by C2 Scientist »

Hey! Research is kinda completed! And here are the results:

One shrapnel material (model: ACT, DAT & MAT) can contain multiple parts, components. Just like cars have doors, fenders, windows, and other stuff. These components will be given random speeds and directions after the impact, so they scatter. The start-structure is actually a model, whose triangles are divided into multiple components, which scatter. The more you divide the faces (more components), the more scattering shards there will be. As a matter of fact, I think you could open some car, save it with & in the beginning, put it to tracks folder, and use that as shrapnel material to get extremely detailed crashing! I've gotta test that!

Small note to PT2 importing: when you are moving the model and applying "force identity matrix", apply "re-centre model data" at the same time, so the shards won't appear in the centre of the track. (at coords 0 , 0 , 0)

And another note: I said that count shouldn't be -1, but actually it's recommended value: it will use each component once, 1 will use only one component, and that's not enough if there are multiple shard components. (wheels, doors, fender, etc)

Hmm, did I forget anything? I'll check later! Bye.

EDIT:

I DID forget the "multiple similar smashable objects"-part. Here ya go:

There's not much different: even if the smashable objects have the same name in PT2, they still get wasted separately. So, no "0000" or "0001" needed, then it wouldn't even work! The game crashes, if the trigger model isn't exactly the same in the textfile. Anyway, during the importing you have to use "geometry move" (modify geometry -> move), otherwise the other same-type-models will change their places when you import new similar objects, like same cars. DO NOT use mouse move, DO use modify geometry's move. If anyone can figure out how to use mouse movement correctly, I'd like to know!

Some extra info:

I imported 5 drone-BMWs in my track to test smashing, and forgot to apply "Force identity atrix" and "Re-centre model data" for two of them. Those two were then located in the centre of track when the race started, the others were placed correctly.

Oh, you CAN use actual add-on cars as shrapnel materials, you don't even have to put the & in the beginning! Just copy ACT, DAT, MAT and textures to your track's folder, and write the name on the "Shrapnel material"-line. To me, it looks like I'm right:

Image

But all those textures would make download size too big.

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: C2 Scientist ]
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Re: Command "recording", and Cesm's modifications

Post by cesm20 »

Well, c2 scientist, i will now reply at your last 4 posts !

No, i already emailed Stainless and they NEVER replayed me, not even to answer questions, much less giving me the sources of pt2 !!! Well, it's not too bad, as the macros can improve plaything2 a lot, even tough it's necessary the macro program to be running.

No, unfortunally the sources would not have much use to me, because i don't know how to program in C++ and i only understand a little.

So, you did a LOT of discoverys in these last days ! Thank you to continue to explore c2 editing, unfortunally in the last weeks i have done NOTHING to continue my c2 editing research, mostly because of lazyness but also because of some lack of time.

Hey, i hope later you can compile all your new discoverys in good tuturials, your discoverys are "too important" to not being in a tuturial and being easily forgotten.

Oh, don't forget that two same filenames with a .sdf extension and a .act extension refers to the same object, they can't be considered diferent objects.

You can finally say how your parked cars will behave, they will explode on contact ?

Cool ! I hope you can master ALL the settings of the smashables, SPECIALLY those unknown flags and what are they for.

Just one advise : please avoid to make ANY smashable vehicle that vanish after a explosion 1 It was necessary a atomic bomb to make that happen in real life !!!! lolol

Hooooo... nice unreal level ! See i would love that kind of architecture in a c2 track, they are always too simple...

Hum... which Gmax are you using ? I also have one, but i don't know if is the same you are using. This that i have required a free registration online (using cookies).

Just tell me one thing, how do you insert noncars and smashables in GMAX ?! Well, ok but don't forget that the macros can accelerate a lot of things, only don't quit to do somethings in plaything2 just because it would take too much time, because for that is that i have done the program. Hey your copy of Macro Express is expired ? Why not go to www.astalavista.box.sk and write there MACRO EXPRESS 3.0e ? There is one file there with a serial to register the program (well i don't know if i should say this here on posts...)

Look, i have no plans yet to make a new track, i first have to finish program because i won't make c2 experiments without the macros, it needs to click in a lot of places just to do simple things such as force identiy matrix or other things like that, that's why i need the macros to start making my experiences and testing the c2 limits and that advanced tricks list i said in a earlier post (remenber that list of very weird ideas for c2 editing ?). And also, without the macros it's necessary to do a LOT of things just to test a new track in the game !

Well, i don't know yet which modeler i will use, and yes i NEVER even thinked of the idea of using CARED to make tracks, as you know i never maded any car so i NEVER used Cared, even tough i have it and working well. Before i have thinked to use Worldcraft (you know, the official Half-Life level editor i think) because i liked it, but it can't import 3d models... Some time ago i used 3d studio max, but it's just too complicated... But i will try again, as now i have 3dstudio max 4.2 full version (not a ripped or warez version). But i think Gmax would be the same, i have to try.

Isn't gmax a part of 3dstudio max ? So it must be very similiar about 3d moddeling, no ?

Hey, i have a idea. Do you want any 3d building models that exist on the real world ? Like, when you make a city-based track. Go to http://www.greatbuildings.com/models and they have so many buildings in 3d model and it's free and almost all of them have a high-poly version and a low-poly version. Of course or c2 tracks you could use the low-poly versions... Tell me what you think about those buildings, they look great !

What ? You can't play in carma2 with the full view distance ! I have tried and even with 100 of distance view it crashed the game when opponents fall in the void. I think is that that makes c2 crash and not the drones being seen in the distance...

Say... finally you discovered a way to make the drones don't disappear in some meters... THANK YOU for the tip !! You made a great discovery ! Just make some testing about that of the drone may crashing the game, don't play with any opponents and set the distance view in the maximum using the c2 menu settings and not using the cheat command) and see if it crash again. Because that's opponents and long distance views that makes the game crash, at least in my computer.

Hey, don't forget to answer this : can you set the drone speed in a specific node path ? For example can you make a drone stop in a pet pump and a few seconds later continue it's path ? Or even make them park a few minutes and then go back to road again ? It's because it they change their speed when making curves maybe it's possible to do that !

Well, about those things in smashable stuff at the moment i won't make any comments, because now you know much more than i, fortunally you are not as lazy as i am !!!

Oh, by the way have you still tested that limits, specially that one of 340 ?

What did you say ?! Let me ask, if i understood correctly : do you have managed to make a add-on car jump all of it's pieces being a smashable ?! Like when we use that car to drive and it explode ?! Very cool, i have thinked to make that before but i haven't the macros yet and it was a lot of work and at the time i didn't understand much of plaything2.

About the texture download size, you can load each of the texture in a program, convert them to 256 color adaptive and then to Real color again, of course the texture would look a bit worse and lose some quality but the difference isn't that much and the bytes would be much less !!

And don't worry, ALL you have said in those last weeks and months about c2 editing, i have saved ALL those posts in my hard drive so NONE of your discoveries would be forgotten by me ! If you don't want or can't make a tuturial about all that, i will do, but it will take a long time, tough.

How, can i make you a sugestion ? Please study also the bounding boxes, specially those more complicated, like : "sphere" instead of polyedron (yes, carma2 supports that kind of bounding box but i don't know the format or syntax of the next lines). I already know the limits of bounding boxes, i plan to post them in a mini-tuturial with several c2 limits.

So, about the WORLD-HINGE-JOINT have you discovered yet it's format ? Long time ago i have discovered but unfortunally i didn't take notes and i forgotten.

that's all. bye
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Post by C2 Scientist »

I really thought that this post was already forgotten, fortunately I was wrong. (let's see now...)

I have thought updating my tutorial too, I'll have to see again when I have figured out enough editing stuff! And I have also saved these files to my computer, except that I almost forgot to save my latest replies, now thanks to you I didn't!

But I don't know anything of 'flags' yet... I doubt they mean anything... I could be wrong, though! Fortunately I know nearly everything else about the smashables now. You see, there were nice comments in Silo-track's textfile about the different lines, left by Stainless. That helped me a bit.

All right, let's clear up this smashable thing shortly. When player hits the parked (smashable) car, if the hit is bigger than the threshold of the smashed car, explosions appear, original parked car vanished, AND lots of shards of the ex-car and maybe some wheels jump flying in the air (like in the latest picture), which then sink to the ground and vanish. So, after couple of seconds, nothing permanent remains in the world, because that could cause problems with 340-limit. Is this a good thing?

My GMax version is 1.1. There's 1.2 available, but I haven't bothered to get it yet. (No need I think) I think the same company has made both modelers, and GMax is free for gamers. The developing kit however is expensive, and it's meant for game developers to create a support for their games in Gmax. Exporting the specific 3D-formats. For example Stainless could buy the dev-kit, and create a support for C2, to make GMax to export DAT & MAT & ACT-files. This is how I've understood it.

I don't import anything in GMax, I put only as little stuff as possible there, because later I would have to re-texture everything, since ASC-files cannot hold any texture information I guess. (And there is no DAT & MAT export in GMax) Like in CarEd, I just make solids, and import noncars and houses in PT2. And I keep different texture using meshes as different-named objects, so that I can use PT2's "Select all faces on the selected model". Just like in CarEd-times, but now I can put loads of triangles in one component (mesh), because GMax is faster. In CarEd, I had to search through many triangles to delete one single triangle somewhere. But in GMax, it's "select and remove". Fast!

That drone speed limit is still a mystery for me. In the beginning when I started my researching, I asked this too, and tried it too. Of course in the Airport-level, when the aeroplane lands and makes the turns, it rolls with constant speed before it turns and takes off again. That's the taxi-speed. But I don't even know how to use that. If it's only for keyword "Plane", it won't be usable in cars, because then the cars wouldn't slow down in curves at all. (I've said this before)

"Sphere" could be perfect for rolling rocks, since the "polyhedron" has this 32-limit. Annoying! I could try that sometime. Anyone could help us with this.

Later!

EDIT: Hot damn! Select the pages as "all", and see how long this topic is!!
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Post by Hellspawn73 »

hey guys great work....my suggestion on the drones would be....1)drones have one speed and is constant...the way i would attmept to get around this is i would add to the path a shit load of the same points at the same location ...never really tried that before but its about all i can think of...if it is told to look for next point x which is at the same location and just kept adding it repetitively hopefully that may create enough of a pause for you...the slower the drone speed the longer the pause and vice versa ...so i would start with a slow drone speed first to see how many of the exact same location points you would need to create the pause and then start doubling that based on how much you increase the speed of the drone. worth a try :confused:



p.s.

...is the vette a noncar or drone?...i'm assuming right now that is a noncar setup like a fuel pump(if it was a drone that would be a milestone of a breakthrough)
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Post by C2 Scientist »

What comes in my mind of your suggestion, Spawn, is that if the drones have constant speed, they would advance through the points in a blink of the eye. And the variable speed when the drones approach a point: (node)

1. If the next point isn't something like in 90º angle to sides, they will keep very high speed.

2. If the next point is something like in 90º angle to sides, they will slow down before turning.

Case 1 is close to your suggestion (the points are in the same place), but then they will keep the speed, and advance through the points fast. In case 2, if the points are a bit moved to sides from each other, the drone would slow down, but then start turning and spinning all the time in almost the same spot, which looks weird or funny, until it has "touched" all the points. That's my theory... the speed limit between points could solve this problem perfectly: the speed limit would be almost zero, and the distance very short. The drone would look like it has paused in front of the pet pump. But is there such an option in drone paths? I think not...

Your suggestion would work, if we could define a time, which it would take to drive through two points. Something like, "driving through these points takes 5 seconds". Now, if the distance between the points is short, the drone drives slowly. But if the distance would be very long, the drone would have to drive with very high speed to complete the distance in only 5 seconds! So, very short distance = very slow speed. But there isn't this option either. :mad:

The Vette:

It's not a drone: drones don't have detachable parts.

It's not a noncar: they don't have detachable parts either.

It's not a smashable object: smashable objects are used before the explosion/impact

It is a shrapnel material: shrapnel material is used as the scattering shards after the explosion/impact. Other shrapnel materials include: falling glass shards of the window, Icebear shards of the Icebear statue, falling wood pieces of the startgate in winter level.

The fuel pump is smashable object before the impact, after the impact the flying fuel pump is "shrapnel material", which has noncar physics. (For the smashable pump, the keyword for shrapnel materials in track's textfile is "noncars". Other keywords are "shards" and "ghostparts". The Vette is "ghostparts", because the flying parts sink to the ground and vanish after couple of seconds) The flying pump could be thought as a noncar, since noncars too move after they are tipped. (like lamp posts, signs...)

Simple? :crazy:

As a drone, it would be too detailed. Imagine three of those drones driving near of you, frame rate!?!? Oh well, AdR's cars...
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Post by C2 Scientist »

I happened to check out the data/peds/setting.txt, and discovered the sphere bounding shape:

(I hate when the spaces don't work correctly!)

1 // Number of shapes

Sphere // Type

1 // Radius

0,1,0 // Center point of the sphere

It works! It's very round! It's perfect! Now I'll make boulders!

And I'm done enough researching on everything, I'll start updating my tutorial soon.

World_hinge_joint?

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Post by cesm20 »

my god ! i planned to post a reply now, now these two last posts almost answer everything i would ask in my reply post... now, i have to left to post a reply in other time, i have to re-write my whole post, but even like that i have a sugestion for c2 scientist :

well, i think it's time to make a new topic, so, c2 scientist, i give you the honor... next time you would post something here please post in a new topic, but this time with a "sugestive" name like "advanced c2 editing tricks" or anything similar to this that you fell that fits more what we have been discussing here. Ok ? But if you reply here again, then don't worry i will reply in the new topic that i will create if you don't, that's ok ? Bye !
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Post by C2 Scientist »

[Before I start, I'd ask you to write your current reply, and adding the answers of these later, in another reply, if that's OK for you?]

To me, it's okay to either continue this or begin a new one, maybe a bit more to continue this, to brake a record of long topics. I don't care much of the name of the topic...

But I've run into troubles with using PT2! It's a old thing, importing stuff. When I import a noncar, put it to its place, and import another noncar, the first one jumps to another place! That's not right! If I use mouse translating or mouse rotating, this happens. If I use translate object (objects/object menus/show translate object menu) this doesn't happen. But the only way to rotate an object is to use mouse rotating, and that causes problems.

There are 2 ways to solve this, but both are slower than I've used to:

1. After placing the imported noncar, save the track, exit and restart PT2. Importing a new noncar won't mess up the original noncars, until a import 2 noncars in one PT2 session!

2. Use INSERT to import objects. But then I have to write the names every time, and search through the whole list of track's objects. (Slow if there's many of them)

I guess it's best to use exit & restart. Fortunately it remembers how the viewports were. (the place and zooming)

I think I didn't have this problem in the beginning... I could be wrong.
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Post by cesm20 »

please c2 scientist and hellspawn73 or other people interested, i continued this topic in the new topic "Advanced Carma2 track editing tips & tricks" so from now on i will post my replys there, so if you want continue this topic there
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