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MAP "Hell country" and C2 Sci please read. It Still sucks I know .....
First of all : WELCOME BACK CWABOARD !!!!!.

I just made a map and forgot to cut and paste all the info I needed to make a map before the cwaboard closed down. Plus none of you wuld be able to get my great maps!!!



Heres my newest map that will be used as the base map for all my additions. It really only took me about 12 hours to do If I knew what I was doing. There is peds and Opponents (that now move!!).

There is a tunnel and a few caves which are pretty cool. The ramps at the top of the mountain DO defy the laws of gravity. AnyHow Have funn rolling peds down the side of the mountains.

Oh yeah a few things. If you notice there are floating peds in the map. Also some that swim and walk under the water. That comes from a side effect of making a cube for the water area after making the grass texture. Im leaving it in there.

C2 Scientist : I think I found out the reason why I had the "recovery problem" . (Not Alchohol !!. I can live with that! I was talking about the car recovery. I think if the map is to far below coordinates 0, 0, 0 the the game thinks your falling below the map.

Next project getting a train ,a man in a boat, adding some powerups and placing some action items in the flat zone of the map. Unless anyone wants to pitch in.

C2 Scientist If you could please help me more on the DUMMY OBJECT thing. I tried to follow your post in "how to make water " reply but It got confusing. I am going to retry what you said again but any clarification would be great.

Change that . I think i got it. I made a copy of the object and I did not do it as a seperate master copy.

When i opened the file in P2 it only showed the master. I'll let you know.

Change that one more time. I do have a problem. When I Open the "show modify geometry menu" box the three dialog buttons (recentre on, force identity matrix, and re-centre model data ) are all greyed out. I even started P2 with no objects and the same thing happened whaen I created an empty object.

Is it the version that im using? Im using build 6 without the macros installed. The macros are confusing me so i dont use them.

I dont remember those buttons load up even with the old P2.
starbuck on Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:20 am
Post
I cant believe all i gotta do is click the button near the words "re-centre model data"

You dont have to answer yet until I try 10 times and cant get it right .

OK. I have tried all you said and I dont think It worked.

I copied the 'tutorial' you gave me and pasted it here. Anything I added Is in between brackets. First thing I did was make a rectangle in max and retexture it using P2. The object was sitting in the map folder before I started. Lets call this a tree.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, so here:

Basically, you create a little object, a triangle, that will be replaced with actual stuff. (noncars, smashables, powerups) This will be a so-called dummy-object, you'll clone them as much as you need, placing them to the positions where you want to have stuff in.



{I used a cube just because I wanted to see the dummy object from all angles. When i get it right then I would use triangles. I am OK with stuff if it shows up above the ground as long as it shows up}

Eventually, you have lots of these little flat triangles just above the ground in the modeling program, above the ground so that you can see them there (because they're not precisely inside the ground, "mixing into the surface"), and the noncars will replace them nicely since they won't look to be hovering in the air nearly at all.

Before cloning, name the dummy to have a Z in the beginning (the clones will become named similarly in the cloning, only that they get three-digit numbers in the end), so they should go in the end of the hierarchy in PT2, I suppose.

There you can easily create an empty object (container) to the end of the hierarchy list, and drag the certain dummy types inside it easily, since they're just above the new container in the list.

It's essential that you create an *empty* object, maybe not with the "model"-data - and definitely don't drag them into an existing track part which has geometry in it. (such as "grass3", or "asphalt4" etc)



{I assume you create a empty object as a child of the main map file right? I made a empty object named 'tree line'. I tried making a empty object with no 'parent' then dragged it into the hierarchy that really messed up my map. I was falling thru polygons, but i digress}

When the dummies representing one noncar type are dragged in, you'll select the container, press SHIFT+T to open a dialog, select "Re-centre model data" in the dialog that pops up, AND select "Apply to hierarchy". Then press the "Apply"-button.



{ I assumed you dont use "force identity matrix" because you didnt say here}





Now you must hierarchy-rename the container and its dummies (SHIFT+G with "apply the hierarchy" applied) as the noncar name, &02Lamp.ACT for example. Then remember to immediately rename the container with a different name, "Lamp posts", for example. They're ready to be replaced now.

Now you'll just save a prefab of a lamp post in the track folder. (ACT DAT MAT) Inside the prefab file, you



{I made one in MAX and textured it and saved in P2 in the same folder but at this point the actual file is not loaded into P2}

{at this point I go "File-Save As-mapname.sdf" then I preprocess and I didnt put any files into the EXTRA FILE box}





need to have the prefab-object, named precisely in the same way you have the dummies named. I think it's case-sensitive. Now, if the object in the external prefab-file is named similarly with the dummy-object in the track, the dummy WILL become replaced. A little detail in this which I noticed: if a material in the prefab is similar with some material in the track, the materials used in the track will become used for the prefab, which means there won't be any duplicates. The material ID controls this of course, if the naming is similar for both in the prefab and in the track.







{ When I raced in the map there was no dummy objects or any trees. I closed down Carma2 and opened up the DAT file . There was the "02tree.act " name in the list along with all the 'part numbers' of the rest of the map. But when I clicked on it I was brought to the center of the map where my 'dummy object cube' was . I made sure the 'dummy object cue' and the REAL '02tree.act' and DAT and MAT textures were not used at all in the map or each other.I have also tried the same things as above trying to get a file like "81oak.txt" or some other noncar in the map but it didnt work.}





(this might be case-sensitive as well) Too bad it looks like we can't replace a single dummy with a group of noncars, for example naming a dummy as "LogPile", and then having an external file with an empty container named "LogPile", containing multiple log-objects in it... the game only tries to replace the dummy with a single object that has the same name (ignoring sub-objects in hierarchy), so the sub-objects won't 'follow the container around'. Or how would you say it. =) And in this case, the replacing object is empty, so the dummies won't actually change at all... they'll just stay as triangles, and won't disappear, for example. Anyway, to create a logpile, you need to place the dummies in the modeling program (Max) so that they form an actual pile.

BTW, the prefab's origin will become placed into the centre of the dummy-object (because the 3D-file format conversions cause the 'centering' or something), and this is why it's best to use a flat triangle. With a 2m x 2m x 2m cube as a dummy-object, the centre of it would be 1 meter

above the ground, and that's why the replacing prefab would be like that as well, hovering a little. Oh and... it seems to rotation info won't be kept in the 3d file format conversions either (maybe depends on the programs / different formats), so it seems the dummies still have to be rotated in PT2, if rotating is necessary. (for some noncars it may not be necessary) This is why you maybe should use slightly 'pointing' triangle, so you recognize where it points at, and

figure the rotation more easily. That's all. =)







{thanks for any advice}

User avatar
C2_Scientist on Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:02 am
Post
Well, I can say that using "force identity matrix" will really void the whole dummy idea. :smile: "Re-centre model data" is the way. (The trees might be showing elsewhere, if not in the centre of the map, then maybe somewhere outside the map)

Could you make a little test track for this maybe:

1. First make a simple grass terrain to drive on. (name it as the 3DS-file you'll export this scene later, to avoid the giant cube in PT2)

2. Then create a little cube somewhere on it, name it as Dummy.

3. Export and get to Plaything 2.

4. Select the cube called Dummy, and go to the SHIFT+T dialog, and apply "re-centre model data" into it. This will make the replacements show up where the cube really is.

5. Open the external prefab file located in this test track's folder. (for example, a copy of the tree-prefab you had) It should contain a single object, so name it as Dummy.

6. The cube is still a cube in Plaything 2 in the map, but in the game it should now be looking as the external prefab file, since they're named similarly.

I recall I once had to name the dummies and the external prefab object with clipboard contents (Copy & Paste) to make sure they really were similar. They looked like the names were identical, but the thing only worked after I re-entered the names. Maybe sometimes that's also something to check for if things aren't working.

Ok, if that worked, you can then try with multiple dummies:

(1.-3. but now with several small cubes in step 2, naming with "01" "02" "03" in the end or something)

4. In Plaything, create the empty new object as the child of the main map object (inside the map object, not inside the "Objects"-object :smile: )

5. All dummies that are representing the same replacement, put them in a single container. (assuming that we still have only one kind of a replacement object in the track folder, you can this time put all dummy-cubes in this container)

6. Let's make sure that all replacements will show up where these cubes really are. Select the container, open the SHIFT+T-dialog, and apply the "Re-centre model data" *with* "apply to hierarchy" ticked.

7. Time for mass renaming: Select the container, SHIFT+G to renaming dialog, and name it as "Dummy", with "Apply to hierarchy"-ticked. The container and its sub-objects are now renamed.

8. The container *needs* to be named differently from the dummies. Now immediately select the container, and rename into something random, *without* "apply to hierarchy" this time.

9. Everything should now be ready for a test, since the external prefab should still be named as "dummy" from the last test. Drive it in-game to see. :smile:

Do let me hear of the results...
starbuck on Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:21 am
Post
I created a zip file for you with everthing I made up to step one. I have also included some images. If Its not to much trouble could you run these thru PT2 and let me know what I'm missing, or what Im doing wrong?

I have added some stuff to your first 6 steps(sort of thoughts , i guess).

1. First make a simple grass terrain to drive on. (name it as the 3DS-file you'll export this scene later, to avoid the giant cube in PT2)

2. Then create a little cube somewhere on it, name it as Dummy.

3. Export and get to Plaything 2.

[Here Im assuming its ok to have a 'bemax' file]

---------------------------------------------------

4. Select the cube called Dummy, and go to the SHIFT+T dialog, and apply "re-centre model data" into it. This will make the replacements show up where the cube really is.



[I understood everything up to here, When i did this a little green cube showed up near coordinates 0,0,0 .I renamed the Object "Dummy"please see 'rename.jpg' for settings]

---------------------------------------------

5. Open the external prefab file located in this test track's folder. (for example, a copy of the tree-prefab you had) It should contain a single object, so name it as Dummy.



[This part I may have misunderstood. At this point I have a file called Dummy.sdf / Dummy.act/Dummy.dat/Dummy.mat.Do I import the file Dummy.sdf? I imported the SDF and a ball shape (the Dummy) showed up in the center. I did name it as "Dummy" I think I get lost at this point.

Do I drag the "ball Dummy " somewhere in the heirarchy? Because after step 5 I have heirarchy like as in 'hierarchy.jpg'.

The 'upper Dummy' is the SDF file I opened and named, The 'lower Dummy' is the Dummy that came with the map.If I process the file or save it now I get only the Dummy at the top.

I tried alot of hierarchy attempts and the best idea I came up with was pictured in "dummy hierarchy" and that didnt work.

The 'upper dummy' is the ball shape near the center of the map, the 'lower dummy' is the dummy cube to be replaced.

---------------------------------------------------

6. The cube is still a cube in Plaything 2 in the map, but in the game it should now be looking as the external prefab file, since they're named similarly.

[Before step 6 am I supposed to save the map and preprocess it, or just preprocess it from there?

Do I only process the map and not have the prefab in the hierarchy?

Do I add the filename in the EXTRA FILES box before hitting the OK button in th preprocesing screen?

I left a jpg called preprocessing for you in the zip as well. Maybe I just made another mistake like missing a box.

Im sorry to say is that this didnt work but I really appreciate your help. Im going to make more maps in time if this works out. Since I messed up a few times, the good thing is Im getting faster at starting over from mistakes.



And also I understood the second part (I think) about multiple Dummy's . I think Its just something wrong with the heirarchy.
User avatar
C2_Scientist on Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:33 am
Post
In the 5. step, you need to open the prefab file in PT2, that is, not import it into the track. Go to File/Open SDF file project, and select the Dummy.SDF. Now there should be only a single object in the hierarchy, as said (except for "objects" of course which is always there) ... and this single object should be named as "dummy". (to match with the replacement cubes in the track)

So don't import the ball into the track (if the ball is the prefab you have), there should be only one object called dummy in the track, in the first test.

Also, don't preprocess for these tests, if it runs without it... preprocessing takes all objects without "&" in the name (I think), landscape geometry that is, and remakes the hierarchy with these. This includes the dummy-objects that don't have "&" in the name this time... I couldn't find the dummy objects anymore in the hierarchy when I opened up the preprocessed track. :smile: Well, if you preprocess, you need to name the cubes as &Dummy instead of Dummy, and do the same for the prefab object in the external file, and the replacing should work again. But you can try without preprocessing I guess.

"Extra files" setting isn't required. And the external objects could stay outside the actual track ACT MAT DAT for all eternity (but their own ACT MAT DAT need to be located in the same folder), and this idea would still work. :smile: (Sure you can try to get the dummy cubes to be replaced with the actual objects in the track in PT2 if you want, but there's actually no need for that...)

All clear?
starbuck on Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:21 am
Post
It worked without reprocessing .. THANKS.

Im late for work. talk later.
starbuck on Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:23 pm
Post
C2 Scientist. I just got home from work. I just wanted to say thanks for the help. I was mad at myself for NOT getting this right, and having to ask for more help even though you told my what to do the first time. I am seriously hoping in no way am I getting you agitated.

I am going to take your tutorial and the messages you have sent to the board and pile over them over the next few days.

Hats off to you !

L8ter.



Actually I did have one more question.

I was able to make my own smashables which (of course) you showed me how.

I wanted to use the pre-made objects (such as the TXT files in the data/noncars folder.

Is it possible to add these into my maps or do I have to make some stuff from scratch?

First I put the name at near the bottom of the map.txt file '24pine01.txt'. Then I tried your one item test by naming the object 24pine01/24pine01.txt/24pine01.ACT. I also named it &24pine.act and processed this one only. all showed the Dummy object.

I did notice an old map 'beachesofblood' had the objects named as (example &43palm2.dat) in the heirarchy, So I assumed the one 'dummy test' would work .

Or am i being stupid again.

User avatar
C2_Scientist on Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:25 am
Post
No problem.

Well, you can check these things for the pine noncar you mentioned:

-In the track (ACT DAT MAT) you need to have the object (or dummy) named as &24pine01.ACT, and nothing else really. (except maybe for a four-digit number in special texturing cases) If I understood correctly, you have "24pine01/24pine01.txt/" also in the name, or? That part needs to be removed, and the & to be added... "&" is needed in interactive objects, and ".ACT" in moving objects. (so you need ".ACT" for noncars, but you don't really need it for smashables)

-(If you're using dummy replacement, the external prefab should be named as &24pine01.ACT)

-The textfile reference in the track textfile (you had written this already)

-The Data/Noncars-folder should contain the noncar textfile "24pine01.txt". (Here the "&" is not needed in the filename, of course...)

Those should be all. :smile:

BTW, if you copy any noncar name from the original tracks (or the name from Data/Noncars/*.txt) and rename the object (or dummy) in your track with this name, it won't mean that the game would check the name and replace your track object/dummy with something that you've seen in the original tracks... the furthest from where you can 'call' 3D-objects are the external objects in the track folder. In the original tracks, however, the noncars were imported directly into the track, as you can see when you open them... they didn't use this dummy thing of course, which I've meant to use for mass placement of noncars. :smile: (sure it can be used for all noncar placement)
starbuck on Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Post
So if I understand right Then I cant use the lamposts and traffic lights from the data\noncars files directly in my maps since I dont have an actual dat or act file.Nice of Stainless.

I do have the DAT import-export file for MAX 2.0. I just opened up a Newcity DAT file and saw underneath the city the poles, sat dishes, and other junk. At least I just have to texture them .

Unless you know where those textures are stored.

Thanks to all your hints I think I should have no problem making maps faster.
User avatar
C2_Scientist on Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:05 am
Post
The tracks contain all textures. If you use a TWT-unpacker on Data/Races/Newc.TWT for example (compare the filesizes to see which TWT-files have the normal amount of stuff inside), you'll get the track ACT DAT MAT & TXT, some other external ACTDATMATs, *plus* two Pixies-files (.P08 & .P16), which are texture packs. These can be extracted with in CarEd, with Tools/Pixies Extractor. Extracting takes a short time. Then you'll find some noncar textures among the other track textures, in the folder that CarEd creates for extraction.
starbuck on Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:08 am
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For some reason i didnt see the 'checkpoint' texture.

Just in case you didnt know. Cesm has a correctly working P16 and P8 extractor. It actually pulls out all the textures. The one in cared doesnt pull out all of them. Only reason I said this was in case someone else is reading this post.

about 50 peolple downloaded my crappy map and I didnt get a 'thank you' from them. But look at the good side, I didnt get flamed for it either.

Thanks for the help. I'll contact you here in a about a week. i want to place trees and powerups in th map, I've also been wanting to lower some of the ground so you can try and beat the train without getting stuck. Im also going to put one breaking bridge in the map.
User avatar
C2_Scientist on Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:33 am
Post
Maybe they're thinking the track is still under construction / WIP. (I'm familiar with the ignoring but I don't really care) It's a good start and good first map, although it could use more landscape details - not only things that you can import & plot around, but also roads, junctions, cliffs, buildings - for example. But keep learning now, gain practise, and move into those things when you feel like. :smile:

I think I have it... a ZIP-file "Pixies Packer" containing Newpixies.exe. Though I still haven't tried it because I haven't been extracting pixies files lately...

User avatar
random_monkey on Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:40 pm
Post
I downloaded it, but I've not got round to testing it yet... I have a habit of doing that. Although I do appreciate the work you're doing. Carma maps are a bitch to do and require uber patience - something I don't always have :wink:
The_Devils_Avocado on Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:34 pm
Post
something you NEVER HAVE :<
User avatar
random_monkey on Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:47 pm
Post
Sniff.

I can't wait to KICK YOUR ASS
The_Devils_Avocado on Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:49 pm
Post
the only thing you will ever do is LICK MY ASS. you wangtickler
User avatar
random_monkey on Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:52 pm
Post
OH MY GOD, YOU TOTALLY STOLE MY INSULT YOU BUMJUGGLER



Also, I shall now stop posting in this thread - sorry for the intrusion :wink:
starbuck on Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:46 pm
Post
Good Ideas C2 Scientist . My biggest issue is making sure the each addon like noncars and powerups and trees and stuff work right. Because of how you told me about repeating the textures in smashables I can make a 5 story building with few polygons. Im going to look at the two story building in the 'junkyard map' to get ideas. I am going to put some buildings and stuff in the flat area, but didnt think of actual cliffs . My first goal is trees and powerups because I can basically repeat them, and also I want to have fun with it. I have the yon set at 100 and the 'ped processing' up to 60 so I can see them a mile away.



If anyone wants to do a small town in the map please help out.

Lets see what I can get done this weekend. See ya !

PS : I know most people would just download something with out saying anything. Im doing maps for two reasons. 1: To give back to some of the people who made addons , tutorials, programs , and stuff that made it easy for the rest of us who like C2.

And 2: To kick some butt on a map I made myself!!!!!!!
User avatar
C2_Scientist on Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:08 pm
Post
BTW, if you have downloaded my C1-track reskins and if you find some textures useful, you can use them for your new environment if you want to.
starbuck on Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:27 pm
Post
C2 Scientist . How do you make ice slippery and grass bumpy? I read the tutorial and it was easy to understand (I think). Heres what is now in the mapname.txt file:

4 // number of material modifiers

// default material

1.0 // car wall friction

1.0 // tyre road friction

1.0 // down force

0.0 // bumpiness

0 // tyre sound index

0 // crash sound index

0 // scrape noise index

1.5 // sparkiness

1 // room for expansion

SKIDMARK.MAT // skid mark material (this was already there)

1.0 // car wall friction

5.0 // tyre road friction

1.0 // down force

0.0 // bumpiness

0 // tyre sound index

0 // crash sound index

0 // scrape noise index

1.5 // sparkiness

1 // room for expansion

ICEE // skid mark material (this is my material in the pix directory)

1.0 // car wall friction

1.0 // tyre road friction

1.0 // down force

5.0 // bumpiness

0 // tyre sound index

0 // crash sound index

0 // scrape noise index

1.5 // sparkiness

1 // room for expansion

ROAD // skid mark material (this is my material in the pix directory)

1.0 // car wall friction

1.0 // tyre road friction

2.0 // down force

10.0 // bumpiness

0 // tyre sound index

0 // crash sound index

0 // scrape noise index

1.5 // sparkiness

1 // room for expansion

GRASS // skid mark material (this is my material in the pix directory)

I made some of the values high just to see diffrences when I drive off the road. There is no difference in the driving whatso-ever .

I even went into the material editor in PT2 and changed the texture DATA type to ICE for the 'icee'

texture. I tried all with and without processing.

Could you help with this one?



Also Is It Possible to make a rock thrown in the air or a rock landslide by hitting a trigger texture?

I know in Errols smashmap track You can make a building collapse!





I think I have come to the last of my questions since I started trying to make maps.

I hope this is the last one.

Thanks in advance.

User avatar
Qwerty_86 on Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:43 pm
Post
Lower the "tyre road friction" value.
starbuck on Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:46 pm
Post
I Did try the value of tyre friction to as high as 10 and as low as .01 and the car drives the same on the ice. (I hope that didnt sound rude)

I dont have a 'icee.mat' file in the map directory, and the tutorial doesnt say I need one.

the skitrackmap has a material with the identifier "3R\75ice" (no texture) and a file called "R25ICE5.mat".

I think those have the answer. I'll try naming my identifier 3r\75ice.

I put the grass bumpiness up to 50 and its still the same.
User avatar
C2_Scientist on Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:49 am
Post
Ah, it's not the last skidmark-material line that links the surface settings pack into some texture in the world :smile: ... the skidmark-material line just contains the information of what texture will be used for the skid marks on that surface. (icy, muddy, oily, bloody, or the usual mark you see on asphalt)

The correct way to apply custom settings for a material, is to put a number in the beginning of the material identifier. (I recall I was first told of this by Econobrick... cheers :smile:) But pay attention to what number you'll put there: in the material modifiers (in track's textfile), the 'default material' is the first pack of settings defined. Material identifiers without any number will be using these settings. After that, the next pack of settings will be 'material 0', and these settings will be used by a material with a zero in the beginning of the identifier. Etc. So the third set of lines is actually linked to a texture by having a "1" in the material ID. So if you have an ice texture used in the world with material ID named as "Ice", and have the ice settings in the seventh pack of lines, you would name the ice material ID as "5Ice". (Similarly, if you look at the textfiles of original tracks, the seventh pack of lines probably has 'material 5' as the description text)

As for the noncar question you asked, yes I think it's possible to make stuff to be thrown around the place (like in the end of last mission), although I don't remember if that only applied to noncars that aren't attached to the ground. (e.g. boulders and logs should be OK, but I'm not sure of lamp posts or trees) Look at the chapter 2.3.3 in the tutorial, and in there, see the details of "Number of non car cuboids activated"-line. I can explain more of course, if necessary.
starbuck on Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:15 pm
Post
Of course your idea worked! THANKS !

I forgot I had the setting at 0.01 for ice .. I kept sliding . I had no traction whatever. LOL.



Im thinking of making an avalanche of boulders. I'll let you know. gotta do the other stuff first.
starbuck on Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:32 am
Post
On a sidenote , just to let you know ... DONT save a map in PT2 in 'wireframe mode' or this will happen.

Still looks cool though.

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