CWA Board • Operation Silent Sedans: A Carma 1 Non-Car Modding Adventure

I've read and watched all of the tutorials for making Carma 1 vehicles that I know exist, but none cover this specific idea. I'm attempting to make a background vehicle from the Old Silent Hill level into a playable car.

The vehicle((s) - if I become productive) are thus:

I thought cutting the vehicles out of the level and patching up whatever holes there may be would be easy, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I started by opening the level's DAT file (silent.dat) in CarEd. Though it loaded slowly, this worked fine. I was able to navigate the level in the object viewer pane and locate the sedan in the first picture. It's split between two "tiles" as it were, but I assumed this wouldn't be much of a problem. The current issue I'm having is that I cannot isolate these two areas in any way (3 5 and 3 6, if anyone wants to mess with them). I started by trying to delete every object in the level besides 3 5 and 3 6, but this has lead to consistent Java crashes. My next idea was to export each object, then import them on their own. When I try this, I get no feedback at all. The objects don't load and the text window which states what CarEd is doing doesn't add any entries. I'm a bit stumped. I have a few ideas as to what the problem might be, but nothing concrete. Any modding veterans have an idea?

Toshiba-3 on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:56 pm

(Hello and welcome :swink:

)

Ah the level is preprocessed so it's not easy to work on it with something like CarEd. The best way to go about this would be to import the level in 3dsMax with Harmalarm's CarmaTools. Or then load what you have in Plaything2 as it's possible (albeit tedious) to select and detach triangles/parts.
Can't sadly help you with CarEd issues.

I can isolate both cars for you, or if you're attached to try and do it yourself, maybe I can try recording a video of the process? (I try my hand at that lately) Would be in Plaything2, or 3dsMax 2012+ if you have it too.

Mastro 666 on Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:28 am

LinksofSphynx on Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:25 am

I appreciate the welcome, Tosh. You have successfully made me feel accepted.

I also appreciate the feedback on CarEd. I was getting sick of the thing, anyway. I'm tempted to ask you to cut out the two cars for me, but the last thing this community needs is a deadbeat modder who gets others to do work for them. The video sounds fantastic, however. I did indeed get Plaything 2 running finally after Windows tried to convince me it was evil and should be shunned.

I'm a bit too green to get the school bus working, Mastro, but I'm glad to see this concept was tested once or twice before.

Also, though this is unrelated, what are some suggestions for free image editing software that can export BMPs in Carma's palette? I've tried the ever-hated Paint as well as GIMP, but Carmageddit doesn't load either of their BMPs properly. I'm of course aware of the means I could use to acquire Photoshop, but I'd prefer stay away from it.

Mastro 666 on Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:45 pm

Caragedit Platinum (Go ahead and click on the link to download the file)

LinksofSphynx on Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:51 pm

Thanks, Mastro. Worked perfectly.

Also thanks for the old version of Paint. Now the line tool's actually useful again.

Ok, I'm already having my first problems with Plaything 2. If Tosh is working on a video tutorial, I apologize for pointless updates, but I figure it's best not to let this thread cool off too much.
Upon opening the level in Plaything 2 I'm immediately met with the problem of actually detaching the car's polys from the rest of the level. Every time I try to isolate the car, I end up distorting the level itself. I can't find a copy or trim option, as one may be accustomed to. If there is a Plaything tutorial, I'd be happy to look at it, but the only one I saw linked on RR doesn't seem to exist anymore. The current link leads to a dead page.

Toshiba-3 on Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:33 pm

Here are a couple of videos:

Loading and applying the Carma palette in GIMP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpzBKpM4q0g
(Carmagedit might should an error upon importing the BMP but the actual import seems to work

Isolating and setting up a car from the Silent Hill level mesh:
https://youtu.be/omimEUTj57A
I didn't make audio comments on this one and it may be a bit tedious to follow because of that.

Pay attention that I sometimes check stuff but then cancel, or even attempt stuff but close PT2 without saving when I don't have the result I want.

(at the very start, I keep the ESC key down to dismiss the 'missing texture' dialogs)

The Delete function doesn't work IIRC, that's why I use Detach as seen in this video.

Some shortcuts I use:
D : deselect everything
SHIFT + G : rename ACTOR and/or MODEL identifiers
SHIFT + T : transform (used here to force identity matrix and later recenter the main model)
INSERT : add a model or empty actor (you can also see me access this dialog from the top menu)
Some more shortcuts are detailed in playtext.txt.

PT2 rarely lets us move a component under another, we have to add an empty child for it to be moveable for some reason, you'll see me do that often.
Once I imported the external wheel model, I use INSERT to add it again to the scene then I rename then to each wheel identifier. At first I didn't add the .ACT at the end of these as I thought I could use the "setup wheels" tools but it didn't work as intended so I just reloaded the scene, renamed the actors with .act at the end, made sure the model identifier was different (all wheels share the same model (the imported ANWHEEL)) then I added a dummy pivot child to each front wheel then made the child the parent and vice versa.

Pay also attention that when I first detach the car as 'chunk2', I save the file without removing the first 'chunk' and upon reloading, only 'chunk2' appears. This is a limitation of the BRender Actor format which can only have one master parent (under Objects, that is) and thus PT2 will only save the last entry (and its childs) in the list. Never forget to delete useless parts once detached afterward or you might end up saving them by accident.

At the end of the video, I think the saved ACT DAT and MAT should be good for C1, just have to hex-edit the MAT file to append .PIX at the end of the pixelmap filename (the material identifier should end with .MAT if you mimicked what I did)

Honestly this is all quite complicated as a first step in Carma modding IMO. And also it's probable you won't ever have to do these steps again for another carma project as this is quite specific. If you prefer me to send you C1-ready files of both those cars you want and you do the rest of the C1 setup yourself, don't hesitate to ask.

The Joker on Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:54 pm

Excuse me for the offtopic message, but i have to thank you Mastro for posting the old Paint version .

Now i can work on certain things without the palette becoming corrupted or turning the ignition on the hassle that is my old computer :tongue:

Before

After

Goes well with the MagnaPal CRT mod.
Again excuse me for going offtopic :banana:

QTZ on Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:06 pm

[This CarmagEdit is patched with PPP.
It is recommended to patch other C1 tools and game palettes.

Paint in selected language can be *extracted* from Windows XP Mode (I believe it's latest version). Window 7 is not required.]

LinksofSphynx on Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:01 pm

Thanks for the tutorial, Tosh. I watched the whole thing with glee. Unfortunately, the odd bugs I've encountered are far worse than I expected. It's probably best if I get the finished models and go from there. I'll attempt to do it all again from scratch at some point, but at this rate I'm not going to see any progress.

Upon actually implementing the steps seen in the video, I haven't been able to get passed the first minute. Upon loading the level, Plaything absolutely refuses to apply textures to any objects. I dragged all the files into one directory as you did, then held down the escape key when prompted to select the pix files needed (I even took the time to copy/paste the pixies into the destination bar one by one, which didn't work), but all I'm getting are white polygons. I gave up on fixing that, as I can apply the textures later before I save the file (I assume, anyway). My next issue is in making a new object. All the menus come up fine, but I can't get Plaything to allow me to make a new object that isn't a child of Silent.dat. Even if I gave up on that, I'm incapable of removing objects as it summons a debug assertion window. You indicated that the remove funtion is flawed in general, so I attempted to detach them, but all I get is an error message stating that I have nothing selected, even though an object is indeed selected in both the data tree and in the object viewer.

Thank you for the GIMP tutorial, as well.

Toshiba-3 on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:16 pm

Here we are: http://rr2000.toshiba-3.com/R6/SILENTCARS.zip
These files should be C1-ready, just have to do the paperwork.

I processed the wagon too and quickly reconstructed the jeep while I was at it. Up to you or anyone to port them ingame. The textures are too dark for C1 IMO?

Quote:

Upon loading the level, Plaything absolutely refuses to apply textures to any objects. I dragged all the files into one directory as you did, then held down the escape key when prompted to select the pix files needed (I even took the time to copy/paste the pixies into the destination bar one by one, which didn't work)

Maybe you're already aware and your issue is something else but just in case: PT2 won't load 8bit textures, it just wants true color TIFF (or 16bit pixies, but it makes them on its own).
In the archive posted above, I included the tiffrgb folder too which only use is for visualisation within PT2.

Quote:

but I can't get Plaything to allow me to make a new object that isn't a child of Silent.dat.

That is strange. Make sure your mouse is above the viewports when you hit a shortcut key as they don't work when the mouse is above the rest of the UI (quality software!). So yeah, pressing D then INSERT should invite to create a new object at the root of the scene rather than under the last master component.

Quote:

I'm incapable of removing objects as it summons a debug assertion window. You indicated that the remove funtion is flawed in general, so I attempted to detach them, but all I get is an error message stating that I have nothing selected, even though an object is indeed selected in both the data tree and in the object viewer.

To delete a component, make sure it's selected (I often hit D then select it again from the tree), that you're in object-level mode (the cube) and select-mode (the cursor). Sometimes the icons seem to be enabled, but they aren't (quality software!). Then press DELETE with the mouse above the viewports.
Detach only applies to faces/vertices, must be in select+face/vertice modes.

LinksofSphynx on Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:50 am

Thanks for the tips, Tosh. I'll go back over them in Plaything when I get the chance.

Also, thanks a whole hell of a lot for assisting in making these vehicles playable. After revisiting your C2 to C1 conversion video, I got the first vehicle working. It's bare bones and a bit wonky, but totally functional.

Also, thanks for the head's up about linking to Newgrounds. I didn't know it was going to be a problem.

There's a couple of issues with this car that I'm going to try and work out in the coming days before releasing it, since I seem to be the only one especially interested in this specific car:

Scale - The thing's simply too big for the scale of the rest of the cars. I'm gonna try to rescale it in Plaything and redo the wheel coordinates.

Menu images - At the moment I just have some placeholder FLIs in place so it's selectable, but I want to give it its own menu images.

Bonnet - Never quite understood how to do it, but I want to make a functioning bonnet before I post the car here.

Crush data - This should be easy due to Errol's breakthrough program, but I haven't added crush data yet to keep things simple.

I'm super excited to begin modding for Carmageddon and thank everyone for their input on my first real attempt. I'm hoping to mess around with the wagon and jeep a bit to try and teach myself new tricks. Here's hoping. Cheers. :beer:

Mastro 666 on Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:33 pm

Silent Hill textures (png)

LinksofSphynx on Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:53 pm

Ok, new problem. I chose to tackle the anim files first, because they seemed the least complicated. The good news is I've made a passable menu image of proper proportions and am able to to make an FLI file with it using Carmagedit. The problem, however, is the goddamn Carma palette. I have used the methods suggested by both Mastro and Tosh, but nothing helps. In fact, my results are getting worse. This is not due to the original file becoming increasingly corrupt, as I have a backup that is untouched.

First I attempted Mastro's method, since it worked last time. Following the same steps as before, I saved the file as a BMP and imported it. It of course looks fine until actually shown in game at which point it looks borderline negative. I also now have both Carma palettes (in-game and menu) loaded into GIMP and have attempted indexing the menu image as both types to no avail. I always export the file as a Windows BMP as was instructed, but it refuses to work.

QTZ on Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:08 pm

It sound like you are using race palette for menu.

There are two sets of palettes.

(That's why my patch create second exec after patching Trixx. In all other tools both palletes are also need to be patched).

Open default fli with patched CarmagEdit (first color is pink), select correct palette, export image (it will contains correct palette) paste your image on it then import back. Save fli then reopen it to see result. Few flics are not compatible with CarmagEdit, so if this faild try another file as source.

LinksofSphynx on Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:35 am

Thanks, QTZ. It's better off than it was, but there are a couple of rough edges.

I'm going redo the original image pre-BMP conversion and change the font color. The hair pixels should be easy enough to touch up in Carmagedit. After that, I'll work on rescaling. The bonnet seems like a major headache.

QTZ on Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:58 am

Since white color is replaced with transparent - you are still using not patched palette!
Mastro put patched CarmagEdit above, also I have pointed to PPP which can be appiled to C1 (SP too) palettes and tools, however only CarmagEdit support flics.
There is no need to edit source image (It may be necessary if red color turns to pink - which after patching is transparent).

LinksofSphynx on Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:07 am

Thanks again, QTZ. You're right. I did it your way and it's fine now - no transparent pixels. I apologize for trying to circumvent your suggestion. We'll call it beginner's hubris :wink:

. I have successfully resized the car, as well. Now it looks less out of place next to the old Carma roster. All that's left is a decent bonnet for aesthetics and I think it'll be ready to go.

Size comparison: before and after

Just as an interesting aside: the car was having trouble getting over curbs in Maim Street and scraping every time I turned it the slightest degree. Because of this, I opened the car in Plaything and pulled it forward on the Z axis, as well as raising it a bit, being careful to make sure the wheels were perfectly aligned. It gets over curbs fine now, no annoying screeching, and it actually feels a bit better now. It was on the Z axis in such a way that the center of gravity was closer to the front, making fishtailing harder to avoid (this is the conclusion I've come to, anyway). I had always wondered why some modded cars such as the Bluesmobile spun out into doughnuts uncontrollably and looked like they were placed farther back in their bounding box - turns out that isn't too far off.

Toshiba-3 on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:30 am

I didn't check the scale, sorry about that. However I made sure to send you properly centered (in comparison to wheel coords along the Z axis) scenes (both actors and models), so I guess you must have moved them somehow. Maybe while scaling down?
About the screeching problem, you could have simply raised the bounding box bottom point a bit (min Y).
Still about the actor's position along the Z axis/doughnuts/off physics, keep in mind the most important factor is still the center of mass in the txt file, then traction, then suspensions. (wheel coords should always be correct too)
So if you duplicated an existing stock/addon car txt file, you have to check all the values/coords first (after you got the car ingame though).
I just checked the Bluesmobile and it is correctly centered. Center of mass however is set to -0.1 along the Z axis (so toward the front).

What's up with the shadow in your last screenshot? Maybe it was just flickering as it can happen. Shadows are defined by the bounding box X/Z values.

Before the CarmaTools maxscripts, I used to detach the bonnet off the main model in PT2. Then just have to rename the model and actor and it's good to go ingame. Once ingame I use the Edit Bonnet mode to tweak the actor properly (camera position should be properly set beforehand, top of the txt file).
It's explained there http://rr2000.toshiba-3.com/R6/wally/codes.html#Bonnet
If the bonnet is detached from the main model in PT2, its actor will lose the positioning, mainly the Y translation. So once ingame, the first thing to do is to raise it.

LinksofSphynx on Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:03 am

No problem about the scaling, Tosh. I appreciate everything you've done so far and I needed the exercise in problem solving, anyway. You're probably right, your way would have been easier. I'm just happy mine worked at all. What I meant about the Z axis was the way you sent it to me seemed to be ass-heavy at first, but I'm well aware your calculations are precise. It was just the way it showed up in game that irked me. Because of this I deliberately moved the car forward in Plaything while scaling it to try and balance it out which, now I see, was pointless.

As far as I can tell the shadow was simply flickering. I loaded the car up in another level and saw a totally consistent shadow. I'm running Carmageddon Special Edition which, while a tidy little package, still has some rough edges.

Ok, first issue with the bonnet: I'm able to detach and export the hood just fine. However, when I do, the hood loads completely textureless except for one small part when I reimport it as its own object. I locate the SLTSEDAN PIX file when prompted to, but this doesn't seem to help.