Hawk 4 and Vintage Cruiser <>
Tiger created Hawk 4 and Vintage Cruiser <> on Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:44 pm
Here are two projects of mine which i deliberately want to insert into Carmagddon 2

Hawk 4

Vintage Cruiser

Both model were scratch made by me,the textures come from various sources.
Unfortunately, if i want to make an entire new package "similarily to Splat Pack, simply new tracks and new cars" i have to know about all of the basics, and i've just got into the carmageddon community, so i am clueless what to do with my models in progress.


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Harmalarm on Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:10 pm
Wow, that's a pretty amazing model you got there. I would take some better wheel textures, but i guess you're still working on them. Nice work. For info on how to make an whole addon, i don't have a clue. I'm pritty 'new' to the carma scene myself...
Tiger on Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:13 pm
Oh, not a entire new pack like that, just add new cars here and then, which in whole would constitute for the pack. its basically a new theme, i'm remaking classics and making a few new psychos on wheels.
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coffeycup on Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:41 pm
Those are cool cars, it would be good to see those gotten into the game.
What are you using to model with? How many polys are they?

Doing a complete mod is possible of course, though a lot of work.
You'll want to start with making add-on cars first.
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Tiger on Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:51 pm
Right now both of them are around 2,500 polygons and are not completely detailed, I am guessing they will double when they are completed, i'm using 3ds max. and i have no clue how to insert a car into c2.
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coffeycup on Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:50 pm
Well, it's pretty easy to get a car into C2.
Though a little hard to explain, because there's a bunch of little things to remember that most of us here do without thinking about it.

You'll need these 2 tools:
Cesm's ASE2ASC tool

Plaything 2

Here's the first few steps. If you get it this far, come back for the rest of the steps

1) Export your model as .ASE
2) Make a folder on your desktop (anywhere really) and put the .ASE file and textures in it.
3) Run ASE2ASC tool to convert your exported ASE to ASC format.

Textures need to be .TIFs and must be 64x64, 128x128, or 256x256. So if they aren't, convert them now with photoshop or similar

4) make a tiffrgb folder inside the one you created and put the TIFs in it.
5) Use Plaything 2 to import the ASC (file>> import ASCII)

If you did everything right, you should see your vehicle in Plaything's viewports, the lower right "3D" view should show your vehicle with it's textures
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Tiger on Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:09 am
What about what the vehicle's pieces and their names should be, and what should the restrictions be?
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Toshiba-3 on Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:19 am
Welcome on CFe, [i]the right place for what you are after[/i].
(Do I sound as Doctor Breen in HL2 ? heh...)

I haven't much time now, I'll try to post a how-to as complete as possible tomorrow.
Very nice models btw ! Especially that Hawk MK4.

@ Coffey : do you prefer the vanilla PT2 instead of Cesm's one ? If so, why ?
I'm a bit surprised that so much people still uses the old version :decu:
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coffeycup on Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:13 am
Good, you do a better job of explaining than I do! :smile:
I use the old version only because it's what I had started with and it did what I needed it to do.
Which at the time was mostly making a texture 2-sided. :grin:
I really should grab Cesm's mod now that I am doing so much more in PT2 now.
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TTR on Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:54 am
Heh i still use the original PT2 too :uho:
Tiger on Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:48 pm
heh.. i'm having a hard time taking grasp of plaything 2, my computer doesnt seem to agree lots with it XD..... and i can export my models, although they appear with the vertex mesh inside out. the main question here is, What are the requirements for a functional c2 vehicle? a simple mesh called Body_01 with a few wheels? what should i name them? how will the game recognize they're wheels otherwise. and how do i zoom in with that plaything and how do i rotate the perspective viewport?ugh...
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Toshiba-3 on Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:10 pm
I'll try to cover the first part of the MAX2C2 convertion~
Don't try to go to fast if you'd like to do a good port of your models, take your time.

You're still in MAX right now, texturing and finishing the models. It's still quite easy.
You can prepare the model to have several detachables and animated parts, C2 can animate components in a lot of ways; don't forget doors.
There is a 1000 tris (be careful, [i]tris[/i] and not polys) per object limitation if you want to keep them dynamically damagable, if you decide to leave a object as rock solid visualy (will still take damage points ingame) there's a little trick but that's for the last part of the convertion. And also a 2000 vertices per component limitation, but it's rarely encountered.
Try to name the parts as explicit as possible : ENGINE, DOOR_R, DOOR_L, ROOF, CHASSIS, BUMPER_F, EXHAUST, BONNET, FENDER_FR, etc. etc. As you can see try to name them shortly, in capitals, and well thought in order to ease your organisation afterward. Also these names can't be shorter than 4 digits, if you wanna name something TOP, name it rather TOPP or TOP_, well you see...
If you want a part to be animated (like a fan for example), it's better to add a .ACT part after the name.
Wheels must be named FRWHEEL.ACT, FLWHEEL.ACT, RRWHEEL.ACT,RLWHEEL.ACT. One of your component must be the master and named after your car like HAWK4.ACT, it must also be the most representative of your car's dimensions as the shadow under the car will be made from its dimensions.
As long as you are in MAX, don't worry about the pivot points for each component, etc. Animated parts will be recentered in PT2 afterward (even if it's not an obligation, it's better).

The C2 engine supports smoothing groups, unwrapped uvw maps and multisubs. Problems might happen when you convert the exported ASE into an ASC file, if there are empty IDs, but that's not the matter right now.
However you must now that the BRRender engine (C2 engine uh) first loads the uvw mapping and the smoothing groups after. This results ingame as hard edges in the smoothing where the uvw map parts ends (hope you understand, else I'll try to come up with an explicit screenshot to show you). So there will be hard edges between textures on the model (hope you get that one as well~).
You have three options in how to texture your model for C2 : load a painted texture and apply it on the model (unwrap if necessary etc.), place an env map on a model (no matter how you apply it, just try to avoid segments in the uvw map (a planar on the whole component does the job pretty well), or simply put a diffuse color (no texture at all).
If you choose to put a painted texture, there's no way to add reflections, but you'll still be able to add a diffuse color on it in PT2 afterward, this way you can use one grey texture on two different components, but it will appear blue on one and red on the other one, in this case you must have two different materials in MAX already.
In the case you decide to apply an env map, the env map is also a texture but it will interact with the shading on the car ingame, and so it's possible to create fake reflections or similar effects. The env map will be applied like this : the very top of the texture will appear on the brightest part of the model, while the very bottom of the texture will be for the darkest areas, the rest of the texture will fade with the same logic between these two areas.
The diffuse color will have to be reapplied in PT2 (most of the time) and will simply shade ingame, though there are several options in PT2 to change the specular, ambient light, directionnal light, etc.

Here's a post about these infos :

And what it's possible to do with the env mapping :

C2 uses tiff files as textures with power of 2 dimensions, from 2*2 to 256*256 via 128*32 or 64*256. 128*128 is the most common, though as most people uses a glidewrapper for C2 256*256 isn't a problem at all and rather becomes the new standard. Just load an existing C2 TIFF to see the correct format, I think I remember it is TIFF Rev6, no compression, no preview infos, 4k, etc.
It's better to directly use the formatted tiffs in MAX, even if PT2 supports different formats with any dimensions. The texture names must be shorter than 14 digits ([i].tif[/i] not included), I often try to stay with the 8.3 format. Also, the names must be exclusive to your car, if two different cars happens to have a texture with the same name, only one will be loaded ingame, and so there will be a car with a wrong texture. Just try to put 2/3/4 distinctive digits in front of the name. I think that for General Lee it looked like that : GL_WHLS.tif, GL_UNDER.tif, GL_HEAD.tif, etc.
Also the materials these textures are loaded in must be named as well directly in MAX. Once again try to put short and explicit names like : LIGHT_R, HOOD, DOOR_R. If you plan to have an animated texture, add a .MAT extension after its material name. Smashable materials and head/taillights don't need the .MAT.
Speaking of smashable materials and lights : in this case you'll have to create a different material for each component supposed to break or highlight : WINDOW_FR, WINDOW_RL, WINDSHIELD, HDLIT_R, HDLIT_L. This way they will be able to react ingame separately from each other, but also load the damaged textures and lights levels. Before the ASE export you'll have to load every needed texture in those materials. Don't worry if you have to apply a broken glass texture on a window you want to be intact at first, you'll be able to set it back to normal with the car config' paperwork; it's just to load the textures ingame (else it would crash).
For the lights, it's ofcourse also possible to have smashable textures, but there's also the 4 levels : normal, brake, reverse, reverse + brake. Most of the time they are all included in only one texture, but it's possible to have them in separated ones (in the case they couldn't fit in a 256*256 texture for example), but that's not needed now, just place the normal light texture, we will come back on that later.

About the whole model position : try to center it as much as possible, especially the wheels, I mean try to have them all at the same distance from the origin. And vertically, the wheels must be placed on the two horizontal axis, maybe let them go a bit under so that it seems ingame that the car is correctly on the ground.

I think that's all for this first part :]
Image / carmageddon add-ons at road reaction
Tiger on Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:30 pm

Here are a few rather bleak idea designs that i just made up
i would just like to know which of the three eagles should be made in 3d.
P.S. : Thank you very much toshiba, that tutorial really helps much!
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Toshiba-3 on Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:18 pm
I'd say the #2 ?!
Number one looks too much like the real first Eagle.
Third hasn't the Eagle look at all I think.

As soon as I have menough time, I'll do the second part of the tutorial.
Image / carmageddon add-ons at road reaction
TTR on Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:40 pm
The first one indeed looks like Eagle MK1, however the second looks like Eagle MK3 but it does look best. #3 looks like the Hawk version of #2 hehe
Really nice drawing of the frontside view for that monster truck :zomig:
Unknown_Terror on Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:45 am
I like the drawings, real sweet.

I'd go for Number 3, It's a bit different thats why I like it. 1 & 2 seem like something you've seen before and have seen before in Carmageddon. So Number 3 would be really cool I think
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Mad_Maxine on Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:53 am
Ok, number 2 looks good kinda like the eagle 3, wich people liked the unmarked vertion of this :P

example my stock eagle,
the orignal just looked allmost ricey with the big wing and all, But yes id say 2 aswell
Wheels Outside All Shapes
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Alex_Dynamite on Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:50 pm
I think that monster truck beside #1 is just awesome!:tup:

And I sure wouldn't mind seeing a real sports car looking like that stock Eagle!
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