Games that would be worth porting tracks and peds meshes to carma2
First of all i would like to ask toshiba to post here all the games you are planning to port for carma2, even tough that most of them you are not sure if you will have time for doing them, but only say those you don't mind about making a surprise or not. I have a few sugestions of my own even tough this doesn't mean that i am doing them, it's just that i would like which games people here would like more to see ported to carma2, and i am not only talking about tracks.

My sugestions are : (some of them i am not sure if it's a good idea for porting to c2 or not i need advices, besides some of these games i already have ALL the necessary tools to port them to c2, but those are surprise)

For tracks :
- all Grand Theft auto pc games (including the most recent ones)
- Mafia : the city of lost heaven
- Gothic 1
- Fable : the lost chapters
- Postal 2 / Apocalypse weekend
- cities from [url=http://www.3dcities.com]www.3dcities.com[/url] (just don't know how to have the 3d models)

For pedestrians meshes :
- Postal 2 (for much better elephant, cow, dog and even cat 3d models)

Toshiba, want to share here your projects, even tough you already know some of them ?
TTR on Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:55 pm
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I've got a few suggestions too,

I think everyone knows Scarface yes? Theres a game out since some days now and it has a free to go city too :smile:

Or what about Just Cause? ofcourse this is very very huge and does contain alot of things, but gots a nice setting :smile:

Then a pretty crap game Reservoir Dogs, it has a nice city when you are driving in the car heh

And an upcoming game Test Drive Unlimited has a complete maimi :uh:
cesm20 on Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:12 pm
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Hum... unfortunately i don't have any of those games (and i didn't even ever heared of them) so in my case, i can only try converting from games i have :) Anyways i hope more people gives here more sugestions
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Toshiba-3 on Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:23 pm
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Actually... I still have the AOE3 map and the HTAtrack (even if I said I'd removed them~).
But ofcourse I don't have much motivation anymore for these...

The last real thing I'm doing is City17, and believe me it's getting quite impressive~~~
There's ofcourse that pedpack from HL2 I talked about, but I'm now unsure to really get into that project...

To be honest, I think that City17 will be my last contribution to the Carmageddon2 community.
And as you see I really don't have much time at all because of school and all that graphic stuff I have to make...

But if someday, a way to import GTA2 into MAX appears, I'll be the guy making the C2 port !

I've so far worked from several games :
Need For Speed Underground, Most Wanted, Flatout, Flatout 2, Painkiller, Half-Life 2, Hard Truck Apocalypse, Command & Conquer Generals, Act Of War, TOCA3, Crashday, Age Of Empire 3, Trackmania, Colin McRae Rally 2005, Carmageddon TDR2000, the N64 and Playstation, and I'm pretty sure I forget some more... ah yes Mafia and Doom3 lol. There were also some Playstation2 attempts, GT4 i.e. (sorry Alan, I... I failed... every Y coord was equal to absolute 0...), and other games like GTR2 etc...
Most people knows the results... quite weak in comparison with the amibitions I had... :errr:

But so you see it would be possible to make a lot of things for C2, just like I do with Half-Life2 and its City17 : taking a lot of pieces and joining them together to form a whole track and rebuild geometry here and there to finalize its shape and join parts correctly.
This could be done with the NFS series. We could get awesome results. If I knew what I know now when I was making tests and all with Most Wanted, there would be another project going on. Also it would be possible to make tracks very easely with Trackmania and its track editor. Etc etc etc...

Some words about some of the games you quoted :
Mafia : there's a fucking lot of alpha channel in this game, plus it has a very weird 3D world structure.
Postal2 : It's DirectX 7 (I think that you understand me mmh ?). And for the peds it's not a bad idea, I think I've already been able to export meshes from PostEd to MAX, but I can't remember if the UVW coords were working.
About these 3DCities explorers, I'm gonna have a look at the format etc. Sounds very interesting. Especially Lisboa uh ? :hehehe:

Nowadays, I just want to find time and motivation to finish the "re-building" of City17 and step back...
I already have a good project idea for another old old game...
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cesm20 on Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:48 pm
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Wow i wasn't expecting such a huge post ! Usually it's me who does them :)

Quote "The last real thing I'm doing is City17, and believe me it's getting quite impressive~~~"
Believe me, i can say the same about the game i am converting, and unlike you, i do have much more free time (since i am unemployed) and so i can do a lot of stuff.

By the way i already finished Half-life2 and i always tought is if City17 have big enought streets for carma2, i mean, isn't it a bit too small to be driven with cars ? I mean, the game was maded more for a first person shooter, for what i seen of the game there isn't much space in the city for driving cars, or am i wrong ?

Quote "To be honest, I think that City17 will be my last contribution to the Carmageddon2 community. And as you see I really don't have much time at all because of school and all that graphic stuff I have to make..."

That's ok, at least finish that so that there is at least something it was worth doing :) Wait a minute, and that track from Hard truck apocalypse, you wont' finish at least that track ?

Quote "But if someday, a way to import GTA2 into MAX appears, I'll be the guy making the C2 port !"

Actually i already learned the format of gta2 map files (well almost), and i THINK i am able to code a tool to convert it into a .asc file to import in 3dsmax, but i can't promise anything, since i have other priorities as you know !

Quote "Mafia : there's a fucking lot of alpha channel in this game, plus it has a very weird 3D world structure."

Hum... but did you find anything there that makes it impossible to port it ? And besides you used specific editing tools ? Unfortunately there is a limit about the amount of alpha channel textures that carma2 is able to display (i have to find out the exact number) but maybe it's possible to remove some of them, like i am doing with the game i am porting.

Anyways Mafia is one game i would REALLY like to port becuase of the huge map and it's similarity with Gta, maybe i find a way to port it somehow. By the way i already have a importer for Gothic's world maps WITH uvw coordinates ok !

Quote "Postal2 : It's DirectX 7 (I think that you understand me mmh ?). And for the peds it's not a bad idea, I think I've already been able to export meshes from PostEd to MAX, but I can't remember if the UVW coords were working."

So far in postal2, with PostEd i was only able to export brushes or static meshes, but not the 3d models of the pedestrians, total commander even has a unpacker of all Postal2 archive formats but i don't know the file format of postal2's 3d models... (i wasn't able to port the peds models into the map itself, where i would be able to port to 3dsmax). Have you idea of how to port the pedestrians models into the map as brushes ?

Quote "About these 3DCities explorers, I'm gonna have a look at the format etc. Sounds very interesting. Especially Lisboa uh ?"
LOL, how you guessed :) That's exactly because of the portuguese tv news that i learned about this website, they showed lisbon in 3d and it didn't looked much high poly (it was infact a bit TOO low poly, maybe at n64 level) but since it's the capital of my country i would have a special feeling in porting a portuguese city to carma2 :)
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Toshiba-3 on Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:07 pm
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The main point behind the City17 is realism, and also having at least one european city in the damn game :smile:
I have removed every indoor parts, and I'm focusing on the city structure (streets, etc), don't forget that I edit and rebuild the geometry here and there.

About GTA2 : I've also tried to extract it from the PS1 port, but no success so far (the emulator is DX9 though) ; I capture textures and tiles maps, but no 3D.

I don't have Mafia nor Postal2 anymore so I couldn't help. I'm gonna reinstall the whole Postal thingy when the big Eternal Damnation mod is released (~31 october I think).
But about Mafia weird structures etc : it's not like C2 at all. There's the terrain appart and it has some values assigned to polys in order to define what are roads, etc. Everything else is imported during the loading, each object is stored in a file and placed onto the terrain via nodes. Zmod can import all this but separatly only :mleh:

I've had a look at 3D Cities. Frankly it's not even the N64 level :heh:
There sure are some nice little streets etc, but in the end it's rather empty. Format-wise, it is XPC, an unknown format. I bet the rendering is done via JAVA or such so no luck capturing it.

[EDIT] I just found that : [url]http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=254947[/url]
Quite... impressive...
Now this is GTA1 and it already looks quite good, what about the same thing with GTA2 ?!
I'm gonna try to contact the guy who managed to import all that in MAX~ [/EDIT]
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cesm20 on Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:06 am
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"But about Mafia weird structures etc : it's not like C2 at all. There's the terrain appart and it has some values assigned to polys in order to define what are roads, etc. Everything else is imported during the loading, each object is stored in a file and placed onto the terrain via nodes. Zmod can import all this but separatly only"
OH NO, i would really like importing that city... damn... at least there is the games that i am converting already, which have much better cities than mafia...

"I've had a look at 3D Cities. Frankly it's not even the N64 level
There sure are some nice little streets etc, but in the end it's rather empty. Format-wise, it is XPC, an unknown format. I bet the rendering is done via JAVA or such so no luck capturing it."
Indeed maybe it's better forget about it...

"[EDIT] I just found that : [url]http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=254947[/url]
Quite... impressive...
Now this is GTA1 and it already looks quite good, what about the same thing with GTA2 ?!
I'm gonna try to contact the guy who managed to import all that in MAX~ [/EDIT]"

WHAT !!!! That means i spend months moddeling the gta1 liberty city for NOTHING ? Anyways it was without textures and i didn't even finished it, so i kinda quited the project. Anyways now it's PERFECT to port to carma2 since they EVEN released it in ASE file format !! Tell me if you have time to port this to carma2, or if it's better me handling it, if you can't because of City 17 city, i can port this as well.

Meanwhile please take care of that about talking to him about gta2 cities, since that you may do better than me :) THANKS A LOT FOR FINDING THIS anyway !!
cesm20 on Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:10 am
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Wait a minute !!! All gta1 files have been removed, all of them are dead links !!! What the ?! Did you downloaded the files ? If you could send them to me it would be VERY good...
cesm20 on Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:47 am
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By the way how you port BSP files into MAX ?
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Toshiba-3 on Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:28 pm
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[hide]Importing BSP : you must decompile them with a tool (there are a lot of them on the internet) and the output as to be *.vmf. Then launch Hammer (the Source editor, included in the Source SDK) and load the map, and capture it from there the same way I do for everything (Hammer = DX9). [/hide]

About GTA : I've already sent him an email yesterday in the evening (wait, no, during the night), no reply yet. His site is currently down, it already happened before, I guess it's just temporary. Not sure whether the files are still there or not anyway.
BTW I asked about GTA2 :hehe:

I guess I'll have time to port these maps to C2 (HL2 could wait), especially as I've already prepared some logistic ways to reduce the amount of textures via MAX, etc.
And about that, what is the size of most of the textures in your current project ? If they are 128*128 or less, the operations I thought about could really help you lower the amount of textures FILES-WISE.
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cesm20 on Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:02 pm
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about decompiling bsp's : oh i already knew that way i think, but at the time the tools i found didn't always decompiled the bsp's correctly, there is better tools now for that ? Tell me the links. I also am VERY familiar with Hammer (i even build a level for hl1 long ago) but at the time the bsp compilers didn't decompiled the bsp geometry correctly.

"I guess I'll have time to port these maps to C2 (HL2 could wait), especially as I've already prepared some logistic ways to reduce the amount of textures via MAX, etc."
You mean you don't mind porting the GTA1 maps even tough you would prefer gta2 ? Ok, good luck!

"And about that, what is the size of most of the textures in your current project ? If they are 128*128 or less, the operations I thought about could really help you lower the amount of textures FILES-WISE."

Hum... maybe it's not a good idea, because the way i am reorganizing the textures is a bit complex (i am doing renaming of textures to associate duplicated ones, so you see it's quite sensitive), anyways tell me your technique and i see if it's worth or not, so far i am focusing on the cars, and i think it's possible to put 25 different cars parked in the city as smashables !! They only add about 65 extra textures, which isn't THAT much as i originally tought. About drones maybe i quit the idea since now i can have parked cars and besides i have no experience doing drone paths. By the way i don't know if it was you who said that a specific car was low poly (maybe it was c2 scientist) but just the ambulance car has about 1000 polygons (without doors and things like that) so i think this is worth.

Ok give me a sugestion, i am making the parked cars when intact, with all sub-objects fused in a single object (i mean the doors, wheels, bonnet and windshields, i used the flatten hierarchy) and when the smashable is destroyed it spawns the same car but in a noncar version without any debris (jeez this track will have about 80 different noncars!) of ONLY the chassis without doors, wheels and windshields, and the materials have a dark diffuse color so that they look burned (this doesn't require extra materials).

In resume i think it's ok to the doors, wheels and windshields dissapear becuase of the explosion, i can't make them as debris since each car has about 10 of them, i would need about 250 noncars .txt files !! (absolutly impossible) I think it's ok like that ?

Besides that my project is going fast, anyways i might need some help with opponent paths, can you help me on this ?

By the way i am done yet another update to my tool, the link is [url]http://www.freewebs.com/cesm22/ASE2ASC121%20fix2.exe[/url] try testing it ok ?

bye
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Toshiba-3 on Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:38 pm
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Hey, I was talking about the GTA2 maps ! TBH the GTA1 ones don't interest me that much as they are very blockish and too cartoony~ (even if it can be fixed by using GTA2 textures blah blah). So if you wanna spend some time on the GTA1 cities go ahead :)

BTW I tested the NY city (yes, the hosting site is back up) :
[img]http://img288.imageshack.us/img288/7786/gtac2jf6.jpg[/img]

I'll explain my trick to reduce the textures tomorrow (not much time right now).

Yes, I think your idea for the debris is good. Just make the explosion big enough and add enough shrapnels (not sure if both these parameters can be changed actually, hope it can), and I guess it should look fine. Just my personnal opinion on this~

I can help you with the opponents paths indeed, just call me back when it will be the time.
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cesm20 on Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:16 pm
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"Hey, I was talking about the GTA2 maps ! TBH the GTA1 ones don't interest me that much as they are very blockish and too cartoony~ (even if it can be fixed by using GTA2 textures blah blah). So if you wanna spend some time on the GTA1 cities go ahead :)"

Oh yes, i have just downloaded them now, i will check them out at home and then i tell you if it's REALLY worth porting them to carma2, since you already gaved me your opinion :)

"Yes, I think your idea for the debris is good. Just make the explosion big enough and add enough shrapnels (not sure if both these parameters can be changed actually, hope it can), and I guess it should look fine. Just my personnal opinion on this"

?! You didn't understood, i did wrote "In resume i think it's ok to the doors, wheels and windshields dissapear becuase of the explosion, i can't make them as debris since each car has about 10 of them, i would need about 250 noncars .txt files !! (absolutly impossible) I think it's ok like that ?"
so i can't use more than one shrapnel, which is the main chassis of the car itself without the doors, wheels and windshields...

What i asked was if the shrapnels never being seen because of the explosion would be okay because the explosion will only spawn the main chassis of the car without those shrapnels...

Ok, about opponent paths i definetly need help, by the way, and what about drones, ttr, sugested me to use drones after all, in case you don't have time to help me on those too, which people here is experienced with that ? Maybe chevy ?

By the way remember to next time also talk about the bsp decompiler tools.
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Toshiba-3 on Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:31 pm
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BSP Decompiler : [url]http://www.geocities.com/cofrdrbob/vmex.html[/url]

I understand you got mistaken by my meaning of "shrapnels", for me shrapnels are just the little triangles that fly around when you hit something. I thought that even if you don't have big parts as shrapnels, the default triangles shrapnels could have done the effect too... if there's any default shrapnel for the noncars (or is it M14.MAT ?), oh well... I guess you see what I mean.

I never tried to make drones paths so I can't tell. But ChevyII indeed has made a lot of them for his Bleakcity2 track (and moreover very well setup as it succeeded to give more life to the track (just what you're aiming for~)).
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coffeycup on Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:11 am
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Jeez, that city above looks great Tosh

re: drones
Drone paths are fun and easy and you don't even need to edit the map. Just the txt file.
(Just need PT2 to figure the coords for the nodes.)

unlike opponent paths that have seperate entries for nodes and for paths
these have it combined into one - which I find easier to edit

this is a square path with 2 drones starting in opposite corners

START OF DRONE PATHS

2 // version
4 // # nodes

// 0 node
-5, 0, 5 //xyz pos in the world
MOVER01 //name of drone or NONE
0 // leave it 0
1 // # next possible moves
1, 0, 0, 2 // go to node 1

// 1 node
5, 0, 5 //xyz pos in the world
NONE //name of drone or NONE
0 // leave it 0
1 // # next possible moves
2, 0, 0, 2 // go to node 2

// 2 node
5, 0, -5 //xyz pos in the world
MOVER01 //name of drone or NONE
0 // leave it 0
1 // # next possible moves
3, 0, 0, 2 // go to node 3

// 3 node
-5, 0, -5 //xyz pos in the world
NONE //name of drone or NONE
0 // leave it 0
1 // # next possible moves
0, 0, 0, 2 // back to node 0


END OF DRONE PATHS


if you were to change the last 2 lines before the END to

2 // # next possible moves
0, 0, 0, 2 // back to node 0
1, 0, 0, 2 // back to node 1

it would randomly either drive straight back from node 3 to node 0
or cut across diagonally to node 1
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Toshiba-3 on Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:44 pm
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I just got a positive reply from Jernej (the person who converted the GTA1 maps to Max), he's gonna try to convert the GTA2 ones !

Just a matter of time before some serious business~~~

[edit] Voila ! I got everything I need to start this project~ [/edit]
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cesm20 on Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:48 am
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That's REAL good, if possible try getting the 3dsmax scripts for importing gta1 and gta2 maps, please, if there is scripts for gta3 and the others, i am sure he won't mind releasing the scrips, no ?
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coffeycup on Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:19 am
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Tosh, I know the GTA1 map look blockish, but it reminds me of some of the C1 cities.

I wouldn't mind finishing off one while you're doing the GTA2.
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Toshiba-3 on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:43 pm
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[hide=25] He keeps his GTA1/2 related stuff there : [url]http://www.gtatools.com/3d-one/[/url] [/hide]
It seems the script doesn't work that right with GTA2 in fact. I still have to contact him about that.
I'm not aware of any GTA3 script from him.

@ Coffeycup : Well what's keepin' you from going further with your idea ? :uh:
Just get these damn hot GTA1 maps from the site above (they are already in MAX8 format), and let's go ! It will not be that easy though, I sugger you try to replace as much textures with alphachannel by lowpoly models as possible, there will be some holes to cap too. Some optimisation etc. Just ask if you need help or info.

[edit] Ah! Just thought I could at least update with a GTA2 wip uh :
[url=http://www.cwaboard.com/ubbthreads/attachments//80167-ste.jpg][img]http://www.cwaboard.com/ubbthreads/attachments//80167-ste.jpg[/img][/url]
Clic on the pic and look closely... the texturing is wrong :errr: [/edit]
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cesm20 on Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:19 pm
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as soon as you have the links to the scripts for gta1 or gta2 maps please post... in the link you provided the download "kam's-3done-maxscripts.rar" isn't working... did you arrived to download this?
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Toshiba-3 on Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:57 pm
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[hide=25][url=http://cfe.toshiba-3.com/files/kams-3done.rar]Download scripts here ?[/url][/hide]
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Toshiba-3 on Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:29 pm
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[url=http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gta2bilc2dg3.jpg][img]http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6658/gta2bilc2dg3.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Have a look at this cool car :bunny:

Seriously, this is the BIL map from GTA2. I've chosen this one because of its environments variety and the detailed level design (but not as detailed as STE).
The black squares you can see come from the alphachanneled textures without alphachannel ; they shall be replaced by low poly 3d models.

It is 300 000+ poly and 900~ textures (64*64) and weighs 30Mo so far, it loads up very quickly (like a normal track I'd say).

I still have to organize the next steps for this project, kinda more complex than it seems.
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coffeycup on Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:27 am
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holy crap, that looks great. I never played GTA2 so this is totally new level to me. What were the black alpha-ed textures, checkpoints? Almost looks like ramps; similar to Blood on the Rooftops level
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Junkpile on Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:43 pm
Post
Has anyone considered porting over tracks from 4x4 Evolution 2? They're not huge (About the size of an average C2 track, I think.), Nor are they gorgeous (The textures could use some work...). But, they've got plenty of "flavor". I think some of them would make excellent additions to C2!
TTR on Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:01 pm
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You know if you can open them with an editor or sorts? I've played some 4x4 Evo 2 before and they are something :smile:
cesm20 on Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:24 pm
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Unfortunately i don't have that game as well, so i won't be able to work on that one...
Junkpile on Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:15 pm
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Let me get back to you on that. I've got a good friend in that community that convert's crap constantly. If anyone were to know, he would.:grin:
TTR on Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:24 pm
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Is that Turbo you speak of? Have you seen the convertions of my cars? I didnt even havta ask him :grin:

If one can get it into max format..anyone can take a shot at it, right cesm? So not everyone needs another game..
But sure..if you need to check it out if its worth before getting the map itself you'll need the game..possible demo use? :smile:
cesm20 on Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:27 pm
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[q]If one can get it into max format..anyone can take a shot at it, right cesm? So not everyone needs another game..[/q]

Yes, as long as there isn't some advanced material settings, like those of the scenes that came with 3dsmax, only diffuse color (true color in pt2 materials) and opacity are ported. And remember that smoothing is always imported as well.

[q]But sure..if you need to check it out if its worth before getting the map itself you'll need the game..possible demo use?[/q]
What you mean by that ? (sorry my native language isn't english)
Junkpile on Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:54 pm
Post
OK. Here is what Turbo sent me about converting the map's from 4x4 Evolution 2. It makes NO sense to me whatsoever. But, maybe you guy's can figure it out...

From Turbo; well the first thing you have to do is open the 512 tif in psp and convert it to bmp,now open the smf's up in zmod and if these are evo 2 files when the popup asks evo1 or evo 2 clik evo 2.now up where the red ball is delete all the textures from there now load the bmp you have that should be the model texture now save this as a 3ds model now use a converter to convert the 3ds model to asc (i use 3dwin) so plaything can process it,do the tires the same way just be sure to ask permission on stuff that's not mine and give credit.and the roach looks great
hope this helps you guys feel free to ask if i can help i will

Now, from me again. I have the full version of 4x4 Evolution 2. So, if files are needed, I'm sure that I can supply them. Just let me know what you need & I'll try to get it to you ASAP.
TTR on Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:09 pm
Post
Well i ment was if you dont got the full game and if you really need to try it out and check the game/map/car from another game its possible to use a demo then. :smile:

The roach looks great? Is this about your Cockroach car JP? :grin:

I have the game too somewhere...gotta dig it up.

Oh and if so we'll use 3ds max to convert the file to ASE then to ASC :smile:


1. Get texture .tif convert to (but why convert?) .bmp

2. Open .smf file in zmod (if the file is from Evo 2, press Evo 2 when asked from which Evo (1 or 2))

3. Delete all the textures where the red ball is

4. Load up the .bmp

5. Save as .3ds

6. Eat cookie

7. Don't forget to ask permission :grin:

But..are the maps openable too? Oh well i ned to find the game then.

Thanks JP for the quick info.
Junkpile on Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:14 pm
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You're welcome on the quick details. But, why are you asking if this is about my Cockroach? Heh... That's the one I'm modding right now! Just paperwork to do yet...
TTR on Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:21 pm
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Well the part you copied from Turbo shows that from the Roach so i couldnt leave it alone :grin: (I wonder what it will be...as the bbox is also complicated :grin:)
Junkpile on Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:24 pm
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Oh yeah... Sorry. I didn't mean to copy that part about the Cockroach into here. Just trying to hurry too much, I guess. LOL
TTR on Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:30 pm
Post
Haha much like me when trying to release a car (Toshiba so knows this :grin:)
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